Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

[Zante74]

[QUOTE=atlroofman;3159337]

Originally Posted by Zante74

Hi everyone!

We are a couple looking for a liveaboard blue water boat to cross oceans.

We really like the Nauticat 44's layout, but we have some doubts about the safety of the boat into blue waters (ballast/displacement).

We are sure about the Amel's safety, but it looks too much big and expensive to manage for a couple.

Other option could be the Hallberg Rassy 42 F, but it doesn't look comfortable for living aboard.

Hope to hear some advices and opinions about owners of these models that can help us trough this important decision.


Watch (What makes a great blue water sailboat ) on youtube by Sailing millennial falcon Then apply it to your search. There are a lot of great water sailing">blue water sailing vessel's not as famous as Amel and Hallberg Rassy and therfore do not command the high price.

Thanks for your advice, we'll watch it for sure!

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Mag3

the Amel doesn't have teak decks.. it's a color tinted gel coat with the black "caulk" lines painted... zero maintenance.

That's odd, the couple I've seen here on the west coast had teak (we don't get many of the Amels out here. But if it doesn't have teak, then all the more reason to opt for the Amel.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

That's odd, the couple I've seen here on the west coast had teak (we don't get many of the Amels out here. But if it doesn't have teak, then all the more reason to opt for the Amel.

Amel uses fake teak decking (looks similar) other sailing boats tend to use real teak. The only other sailing vessels that do not use teak (to my knowledge) are catamarans and trimarans.

[SVHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Zante74

Do you remember which Nauticat model had your dock neighbor? It was a motorsailor or a S&S design?

Thank you and good winds!

Definitely the motor sailor version! Which is what made his racing scores so much fun!

[robert sailor]

The 3 boats you are considering are all well made boats. Well made and well maintained are really 2 different things. It takes a good amount of skill to be able to inspect a boat to ensure a best guess as far as maintenance. These larger boats can absorb money like a class A sponge so doing your due diligence is very important. I've owned my share of boats over the years and it's very common to write cheques almost equal to the original selling price before it's really ready to go.. New rigging on an Amel is a plus as it's an expensive job to re rig these ketches. New sails is also a plus but those 2 items do not qualify to suggest the boat has been refurbished by any stretch. Those boats have complex systems and remember you wouldn't be maintaining a $190,000 boat you will be maintaining a million dollar boat because that's close to what a new one costs.and that's really what your ,looking after. Try to find the most qualified surveyor that has a deep knowledge of the boat your interested in and use this person but also know that the best surveyor will never be able to spot more than a few deficiencies but over the months as you prepare the boat you'll keep running into more and more and then when you actually start to travel you'll discover even more problems. That's the life of a cruiser, fixing your boat in exotic ports. It's still a wonderful lifestyle and to us it's worth all the aggravation of boat jobs but go into it with your eyes open. You are wanting a floating home for the next 20 years...my advise would be to buy the nicest keep boat you can find, get to know the owner as people are consistent in how they look after things. Whatever premium you pay, you'll get back many times over. Forget about finding the best price, lowest price and best looked after don't drink at the same bar. Good luck in your search. R

[Mag3]

it was very similar to this one pictured here (I just grabbed from yachtworld)...

Originally Posted by Zante74

Thank you for the information!

We love Amel boats, we have no doubts about their safety sailing. Our reflection is about the different annual managing costs, as for ports, etc.

The Nauticat 44 is really a good deal, that's why we are considering it so much, asking price 140k euros.
The Super Maramu option is a boat that has been refitted because it travelled for one year from the Med to the Caribbean, and after this experience they decided to sell it, asking price 190k euros.

Do you remember which Nauticat model had your dock neighbor? It was a motorsailor or a S&S design?

Thank you and good winds!

[Mag3]

The amel is definitely higher build quality... though as with any older boat, how it's maintained matters a ton.

in terms of maintenance costs, unless you want to live like you're camping, you'll end up upgrading whatever boat you get to the kind of functions the amel has for comfort...

more complex boats cost more to maintain (and crazy more if you just want to write a check).. that's just a fact... so i'd personally discount the maintenance costs part...

but at 44 feet vs. 53, for sure slip fees will be less with the Nauticat.

Originally Posted by Zante74

Hi Justin,

We are a couple with a little experience, around 70.000 nm in the Med in the last 25 years, but mostly in short passages with commercial boats (Jeanneu, Beneteau, Bavaria).
We sold our home and we are now ready to buy our home boat and start the dream.

As we hope it will be our boat for the next 20 years, we are looking for a boat with different features, but first of all safety and quality. After these features, for sure we are looking for a comfortable boat, with the right annual managing costs.

We didn't understand well your opinion about build quality, which one you think is higher level?

[Mag3]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

That's odd, the couple I've seen here on the west coast had teak (we don't get many of the Amels out here. But if it doesn't have teak, then all the more reason to opt for the Amel.

Perhaps they retrofit that? it's definitely unique. I know on the Amel 64 they offered actual teak as an option, but that's it as far as i know.

I've attached pictures from the Amel build thread (found elsewhere in this forum) showing the gel coat molding of the decks, and then the finished product which is very labor intensive to do as the black lines are then painted in the "seams".. the finished product is zero maintenance and water tight.

Cheers,
-justin

[Mag3]

[QUOTE=atlroofman;3159337]

Originally Posted by Zante74

Watch (What makes a great blue water sailboat ) on youtube by Sailing millennial falcon Then apply it to your search. There are a lot of great blue water sailing vessel's not as famous as Amel and Hallberg Rassy and therfore do not command the high price.

this too! good advice... everyone here (me included!) has biases.. you have to figure out what yours are!

some more questions for you:

• How important are home like comforts vs. more like camping for you if you're living aboard? the answer here either results in a more systems intensive boat or not? (read: water maker, heating, air conditioning, washing machine, dishwasher, etc.)
• Do you want something with a protected helm or not?
• Are you comfortable in a V-birth or do you and your partner need a full island bed? this may dictate center cockpit options...
• how much "outdoor" space do you want? this will inform things like cockpit size etc.
• do you want to try and be off the grid a bit? if so... then something that has space (hard top dodger, arch, etc.) to put up some solar
• do you need to run the boat from the cockpit or are you ok with heading up to the mast when it's not so nice?
  

[kmacdonald]

Hallberg Rassy or Amel.

[Mag3]

to the point of other good boats..

https://www.sailingtotem.com/totem-our-floating-home

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...ns-47-3593761/

[bstreep]

As I posted earlier, Amels are excellent boats, and very safe. Yeah, "I have a dog in this hunt", but here's a Macintosh we know well. As others have said, there are some great blue water boats without the reputation, because not many were built. Only 16 Macintoshes built. This boat has been impeccably cared for, and is ready to cruise. https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...sh-47-3572883/

[Zante74]

Originally Posted by Ded reckoner

Nauticat boats come in two flavors. The versions with a modified fin keel are known as pilothouse sailboats (e.g. N38, N40, N42, N43). These sailboats are strong, heavy, Class A, bluewater boats. Versions with a full keel, such as the N44, are strong, heavy, Class B boats, so they aren't bluewater boats. They are classified Class B primarily because of the two side entry doors (instead of a conventional, more-or-less centered companionway). Also, the full keel makes it increasing difficult to point into the wind as the wind speed climbs (without resorting to use of a sea anchor); this makes heaving-to problematic. For a brief description of yacht classification, see https://itayachtscanada.com/understa...d-in-yachting/ . We love our N43 and would encourage anyone looking at an open ocean sailboat to at least walk through a Nauticat (e.g. N40, N42, or N43) before you purchase anything.


Some friends of ours have an Amel Super Maramu and they love it. We have a friend who circumnavigated in a Hallberg Rassy 46 and he thought his boat was very capable and comfortable.


There are many other bluewater boats, but I don't think you would go wrong choosing between any of these three.

Thank you for sharing with us your experience! We love your boat, and lot of people doesn't know Nauticat's quality and think it's lower than other sailboats. Nauticat's property was of Swan. We evaluated the N43 but at the moment there are only old boats for sale, and really expensive.

For the layout we prefer the N44, the point is that the one that we found is a really good deal, this is the link of the listing: https://www.yachtworld.it/barche/200...at-44-3530191/

Do you know someone that has the N44 or you have direct experience with it?

Thank you and good winds!

[Zante74]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

The 3 boats you are considering are all well made boats. Well made and well maintained are really 2 different things. It takes a good amount of skill to be able to inspect a boat to ensure a best guess as far as maintenance. These larger boats can absorb money like a class A sponge so doing your due diligence is very important. I've owned my share of boats over the years and it's very common to write cheques almost equal to the original selling price before it's really ready to go.. New rigging on an Amel is a plus as it's an expensive job to re rig these ketches. New sails is also a plus but those 2 items do not qualify to suggest the boat has been refurbished by any stretch. Those boats have complex systems and remember you wouldn't be maintaining a $190,000 boat you will be maintaining a million dollar boat because that's close to what a new one costs.and that's really what your ,looking after. Try to find the most qualified surveyor that has a deep knowledge of the boat your interested in and use this person but also know that the best surveyor will never be able to spot more than a few deficiencies but over the months as you prepare the boat you'll keep running into more and more and then when you actually start to travel you'll discover even more problems. That's the life of a cruiser, fixing your boat in exotic ports. It's still a wonderful lifestyle and to us it's worth all the aggravation of boat jobs but go into it with your eyes open. You are wanting a floating home for the next 20 years...my advise would be to buy the nicest keep boat you can find, get to know the owner as people are consistent in how they look after things. Whatever premium you pay, you'll get back many times over. Forget about finding the best price, lowest price and best looked after don't drink at the same bar. Good luck in your search. R

Hi Robert, thank you very much for the time you dedicated to give these advices to us.
For sure an accurated and professional survey will be the first thing before to buy any boat. On the other hand, we know that a floating life will bring lot of job to do, but we are sure that it will be worth it as you said.
We are living aboard for 3 months per year in the Med since 25 years on our 43 ft motor yacth, so we have a litte idea of what it means being fixing in exotic ports.
Thank you again and good winds!

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by Zante74

For the layout we prefer the N44, the point is that the one that we found is a really good deal, this is the link of the listing: https://www.yachtworld.it/barche/200...at-44-3530191/

Going by the photos, that is an awfully good price for the condition it's in. And it has a bowthruster to help if you really have a problem turning into the wind quickly enough. Plenty of storage, accomodations, fuel and water. I would throw those televisions in the trash though.

This is interesting from the description: "First owner, the boat is custom made for the owner – best materials were used and he was present in Nauticat factory at the time of manufacture"