Liveaboard blue water boat: Nauticat 44 or Amel Super Maramu?

[Zante74]

[QUOTE=Mag3;3159508]

Originally Posted by atlroofman

this too! good advice... everyone here (me included!) has biases.. you have to figure out what yours are!

some more questions for you:

• How important are home like comforts vs. more like camping for you if you're living aboard? the answer here either results in a more systems intensive boat or not? (read: water maker, heating, air conditioning, washing machine, dishwasher, etc.)
• Do you want something with a protected helm or not?
• Are you comfortable in a V-birth or do you and your partner need a full island bed? this may dictate center cockpit options...
• how much "outdoor" space do you want? this will inform things like cockpit size etc.
• do you want to try and be off the grid a bit? if so... then something that has space (hard top dodger, arch, etc.) to put up some solar
• do you need to run the boat from the cockpit or are you ok with heading up to the mast when it's not so nice?
  

Thank you for your help!
We have a clear picture of what will have to boat for us to be livable. Both Nauticat and Amel have all the facilities we need (generator, water maker, dishwasher, a/c, etc.). The Nauticat 44 only needs solar panels and wind generator, while the Amel already has them.
Our idea of a liveaboard boat is that it has to be comfortable like a home, but first of all safe. All our researches for the perfect boat for us follow this lead.

For the maintenance costs, both boats are similar as system managing as they have the same facilities. The real difference are the port fees.

[AiniA]

Something to think about is that once you get to the Caribbean you will not be in marinas that often. It is much more pleasant to anchor out (breeze/quiet). Beyond the Caribbean many places you go do not even have marinas.

[Bob24sail]

Hi every one !! any ideas about quality from a Beneteau 57 Bruce Farr design or a Moody 52 ?
Thank you and Fair Winds !!

[Eleuthera 2014]

We own an Amel Super Maramu and have sailed her halfway around the world prior to Covid 19... awaiting border reopening in NZ to decide on next course of action.

Point to consider... Nauticat has shut down all operations.

Amel is very successful and has an EXTREMELY active owner base. Any technical problem you may narrate will receive almost instant solution....

In my opinion, this point is worth a fortune.

GL with your choice.

[SV__Grace]

It's hard to beat the Nauticat for cruising comfort. The visibility of the raised salon and dual helms is a big plus for us. I wouldn't worry about the ability of the Nauticat to handle blue water with the right equipment and skills, but your post mentions "crossing oceans" (plural), so it really does seem to come down to your cruising goal and priority-

- If you truly are crossing lots of oceans and need to plan for hairy conditions, the raised pilothouse is more of a problem than the hull design of the Nauticat and the Amel is superior.

- If your ocean crossings are rare, you can choose good weather windows, and you spend more time coastal cruising, the Nauticat is a fine choice.

With any boat purchase, be sure to experience the actual boat and don't make decisions based upon academic discussions and numbers. All types of boats have successfully crossed oceans and the Nauticat 44 is certainly capable of doing so safely.

[wingssail]

It is interesting that your focus is entirely on safety and comfort, which are of course important, since your sailing experience has been on production cruisers, presumably charter boats, which offer a better sailing experience than either of these choices, while still being safe at sea.

You will find the sailing experience to be drastically different on the Nauticat. You might be disappointed that it feels so much more sluggish and lifeless, and sailing to windward will be unrewarding.

The Amel, on the other hand will be a good sailing boat, though sort of biggish.

So, if you are making this move partially because you enjoyed the sailing you have done previously, choose the Amel over the Nauticat, in my opinion.

However, then you have the ongoing cost issue, and the maintainability issue. The 52 Amel will cost your more for most things, moorage, haulouts, sails, and you may have a lot of ongoing maintenance and repairs. It is a big, older, boat.

So considering all things (and I know you are leaning strongly toward the Nauticat) I think you should consider the HR42. This is a quality boat which is a manageable size and has great pedigree and sailing qualities.

Too many people, when they look at a boat, they climb on board and go directly below to look around. It isn't just a water based condo, folks, it is a sailboat. Consider the sailing aspect.

[robert 56]

I follow a couple on a amel 53 . they are on u tube , instagram , etc . the boat looks super comfortable and to be a proven passage maker . I would imagine if you look on one of their sites you would get some helpful information . they are easy to contact . google Delos sailing .

[David Johnson]

We purchased a Nauticat 44 in Florida last fall and have been rehabilitating it since then--it had been neglected for probably 7 years and pretty much ignored for the last 3. The bones of the boat are wonderful. Having owned a Pearson 10M for the last 40 years, we believe that the cutter ketch on the Nauticat will be easier to sail. The teak deck is actually an overlay over a solid fiberglass deck--no plywood core. We removed the teak on the forward part of the boat. Our boat is now on a freighter bound for Victoria BC, where it will arrive on June 28. Right now BC will let the boat in but it is unclear whether they will let us in or not--the adventure continues! Nauticat had a lot of variety in their interior layouts, so make sure the one you buy has the layout you like. The boats are very seaworthy--one of the boats we looked at had completed a circumnavigation. They are heavy and full displacement, so wind isn't as much a factor in close quarters/slow speed maneuverability as with a lighter, fin keel boat.
My advice would be to make sure that you make a careful list of what your boat has to have, would be nice to have and absolutely can't have, then look at prospective boats with your list carefully inventoried. Good luck!!

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Zante74

Amel vs. Nautical.

>> looking for a liveaboard blue water boat to cross oceans


A boat perfect for living onboard may or may not be a decent ocean crossing boat.


>> Amel's safety, but it looks too much big and expensive to manage for a couple.


Amels were built EXACTLY for a couple. They are not charter boats.


>> We really like the Nauticat 44's layout


You are buying the Nauticat then. It is an awesome liveaboard thing. And their ballast ratio is no issue.


A Nauticat is a boat designed in a cold country, for cold waters.


An Amel is a boat designed in France, a Mediterranean country with outposts in the Caribbean and Polynesie.


I would never ever use a Nauticat pour tropics or tradewinds sailing (over an Amel).


I would rather have a Nauticat where there is heaps of wind and rain.



VASTLY different boats.


barnakiel

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by Zante74

Thanks everyone for your reply!
I am sure we can handle all these boats being a sailing couple, I tought about the Nauticat for the lower managing prices (ports, etc.).
The only doubts I have are about the Nauticat safety in blue waters.

I, of course, I would go for the Nauticat. But I am prejudiced since I own one.

My 1983 NC-36 has a solid hull and deck. The hull is nearly One and a half inches thick solid fiberglass. I believe that the 44 still has the (very thick) fiberglass hull but the deck may have a balsa core on that model.

The Nauticat is a solid bluewater boat built in Finland for the North Sea and many of them have crossed many oceans.

I single hand and I like the ketch rig because the main sail is smaller and easier to handle and three sails give you many more choices of sail arrangement and trim.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[Zante74]

Originally Posted by Eleuthera 2014

We own an Amel Super Maramu and have sailed her halfway around the world prior to Covid 19... awaiting border reopening in NZ to decide on next course of action.

Point to consider... Nauticat has shut down all operations.

Amel is very successful and has an EXTREMELY active owner base. Any technical problem you may narrate will receive almost instant solution....

In my opinion, this point is worth a fortune.

GL with your choice.

Hi, thank you for your opinion.

The Amel is for sure an amazing boat, but it looks really expensive to manage for the next 15 years (moorings, maintenance, repairs, etc...). As you own it one, is it real that it's a boat with a complicated system and that needs lot of maintenance and repairs?

In the Nauticat and in the Amel system is pretty similar (generator, air conditioning, water maker, etc...).

Good winds.

[Zante74]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

It's hard to beat the Nauticat for cruising comfort. The visibility of the raised salon and dual helms is a big plus for us. I wouldn't worry about the ability of the Nauticat to handle blue water with the right equipment and skills, but your post mentions "crossing oceans" (plural), so it really does seem to come down to your cruising goal and priority-

- If you truly are crossing lots of oceans and need to plan for hairy conditions, the raised pilothouse is more of a problem than the hull design of the Nauticat and the Amel is superior.

- If your ocean crossings are rare, you can choose good weather windows, and you spend more time coastal cruising, the Nauticat is a fine choice.

With any boat purchase, be sure to experience the actual boat and don't make decisions based upon academic discussions and numbers. All types of boats have successfully crossed oceans and the Nauticat 44 is certainly capable of doing so safely.

Hi,

thank you for your advices.

For sure we will ask for a professional survey for any boat before to purchase it.

During the first years, we should only cross the Atlantic ocean and then stop in the Carribean, but after 2 years our goal is to start the circumnavigation from the Pacific.

Good winds

[Zante74]

Originally Posted by wingssail

It is interesting that your focus is entirely on safety and comfort, which are of course important, since your sailing experience has been on production cruisers, presumably charter boats, which offer a better sailing experience than either of these choices, while still being safe at sea.

You will find the sailing experience to be drastically different on the Nauticat. You might be disappointed that it feels so much more sluggish and lifeless, and sailing to windward will be unrewarding.

The Amel, on the other hand will be a good sailing boat, though sort of biggish.

So, if you are making this move partially because you enjoyed the sailing you have done previously, choose the Amel over the Nauticat, in my opinion.

However, then you have the ongoing cost issue, and the maintainability issue. The 52 Amel will cost your more for most things, moorage, haulouts, sails, and you may have a lot of ongoing maintenance and repairs. It is a big, older, boat.

So considering all things (and I know you are leaning strongly toward the Nauticat) I think you should consider the HR42. This is a quality boat which is a manageable size and has great pedigree and sailing qualities.

Too many people, when they look at a boat, they climb on board and go directly below to look around. It isn't just a water based condo, folks, it is a sailboat. Consider the sailing aspect.

Hi,

thank you for your suggestion.

The HR 42 is a boat that we are already evaluating, but it's really old. The model that is famous for the circumnavigation is the HR 42E (ketch), the most recent are the HR 42F (sloop).

We don't like the HR's layout for the liveaboard comfort.

Good winds.

[alilves]

Keep in mind that slip fee differences between 44' and 53' are HUGE. Literally double in some cases. Something to keep in mind for ongoing costs.

[hatteras53]

Originally Posted by Zante74

Hi Justin,

We are a couple with a little experience, around 70.000 nm in the Med in the last 25 years, but mostly in short passages with commercial boats (Jeanneu, Beneteau, Bavaria).
We sold our home and we are now ready to buy our home boat and start the dream.

As we hope it will be our boat for the next 20 years, we are looking for a boat with different features, but first of all safety and quality. After these features, for sure we are looking for a comfortable boat, with the right annual managing costs.

We didn't understand well your opinion about build quality, which one you think is higher level?

Hi Zante74 and all,


I will jump in here with my 3 cents. The wife and I have owned a 44' Nauticat for 9 years. We bought it at a low price and have spent over 100k on almost a complete refit. It is rock solid and I would not hesitate to across an ocean. In fact, we still make take in from Maryland all the way to Manila, since my wife is a Filipina. The total cost of operation will be much less than the larger 52' you are considering. Would not worry about Nauticat being out of business either. You can e mail me at forkliftman1952@gmail.com or call me at 1-410-913-2330 Michael