Looked at two boats - help me decide

[HeyHoLetsGo]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

when considering 2 boats, get the one that ................ speaks to your heart

The Westerly it is (probably)

[k. michael marquardt]

In the Baltic you will find the diesel heater in the Westerly an asset. Water temp beeing around 60 F in a depth of 3 feet.

Otherwise, 20k seems to be ok.
Why do you expect/need so much assistance from the previous owner? These are simple sailboats.
Manual windlass should be no problem, most sheltered anchs have less than 20 ft of water. You wont have 200ft of a 1/2 inch chain
Cheers Michael

[sinnerman]

I would go with the westerly .

Volvo engine hours are not that high, if the engine was well maintained.
Volvo parts are extremely expensive but so are Yanmar.
Volvo parts are readily available in Europe. Probably more so than Yanmar...

Having a windvane steering is a huge PLUS for solo sailing especially if boat does not have an autopilot.
Windvane steering units are EXPENSIVE and used ones (that will also fit your boat) are almost impossible to find on the market.

Most used boats have outdated or non-existent electronics, so not having wind instruments is not a big deal.

I actually prefer a hanked on sail, as long as the side decks are easy to walk to get to the bow.
Install netting on the lifelines forward to keep the sail from falling overboard when it is on the deck.
You can rig a downhaul line to help pull the sail down from the ocockpit if you do not want to go forward
You can always add a furler later.

10 years for standing rigging is not "that" old.
You can replace the riging your self, (if you are not afraid of heights..) one piece at a time by taking the piece to a local rigger to make a new one.

Choose the boat that you feel you will be more compfortable sailing and living in, and fix her up as it goes.

A survey is a must, especially if you do not have a lot of experience working on boats and knowing what problem areas to look for.

DO youresearch on the intrnet to see where the problem areas for this particular boat are before inspecting.

My two cents

cheers.

[Citizen Kane]

Originally Posted by HeyHoLetsGo

It's the updated version of the 30 with a more modern hull design, built according to IOR 1/2 ton rules. From what I've read, people have quite conflicting oppinions about that general type of hulls.



Of course so here is some broarder context:

I'll very likely stay in the baltic sea for a couple of years. Spend maybe 8-12 weeks a year on or near the boat. Half of the time in full vacation mode, and the other half working 3 days a week.

I've got a berth in a marina where a family member has a small vacation appartment next to it, which I can use when not occupied otherwise. There is also a nice anchoring spot nearby.

As for sailing, I'll probably hug the German and Danish coast for a year or two, doing day sails when the weather is good to (im)prove my skills and built routine and confidence. Eventually, I'd like to see Sweden and Åland which might involve an occasional overnight sail. I'm not a racer, appreciate a chill sail, will motor if needed, but prefer not to. At the moment, I don't have reguar crew as in partner, but friends will join me, although not all of the time. With some I've sailed dinghys or on a charter boat (neither of us as the skipper), some have no experience. Two guests max at a time.



You're right, engine and rigging is definitely a big plus for the Contest. That will likely have to be replaced on the Westerly, earlier. But the 4k price difference is like either rigging or half an engine, right? For now, both are fine, the Volvo is really well maintained, the older rigging not sailed as hard and small stuff seems in slightly better condition. I wonder if that evens it out...

I had the Contest 30 for 20 years on the Chesapeake Bay. Solid boat, stable and sea kindly manners. I sailed her solo in summer and winter. Great boat. Shorter rig due to her Dutch heritage and North Atlantic use. Conyplex is still around and their new boats are VERY expensive. Probably has a beautiful interior with Sipa wood floors. I sold here 3 years ago in FL and she is still sailing strong. New sails are reasonable to buy.

Adding autopilot will be easy and it’s a destroyer style wheel so very compact. Make sure thru-hulls are newer and inspected and she will be dry bilge, except for the expected drips inside a 50 year old boat.

They still sell for more in Europe, here in US they are unknown and hence a lower price. Still a large fleet and annual rally’s in Holland.

Gerard

[MicHughV]

say after me....."eenie meenie, minee mo, for which boat shall I go" and whichever one your finger points at...that's the one !!

[Goodxcharly]

Contest 30 would be my choice with the newer engine.
Hope this helps!

Good luck🍀

[gulfislandfred]

In equal condition, I would choose the Westerly. Engine and furler weigh toward the Contest, but a wheel auto pilot plus windvane is close to the cost of a new engine.
The Volvo is a gamble. Might be OK for a while. Do you feel lucky?



I have owned a couple of Westerlies. Both had the liner issue. You can just tear it out, (cut around built in stuff) sand the hull or cabin top with 60 grit, then paint it, and put back the liner of your choice.
Liner can be anything from bubble wrap, taped in with duct tape on a dry day, with beautiful cloth draped inside, to insulated vinyl proper headliner glued with your choice of adhesive.

I would choose the Westerly, if your budget allows a new jib furler and the sail conversion for the foil (or go cheap, remove the hanks, and sew a few inches of luff tape to each hank spot, and just add the furler with foil)
I highly recommend the CDI furler, with no swivel.
The Volvo may run for a long time, or not.

Longbow, assume that an engine replacement is possible.
Here in BC, Canada, used engines come up for sale at least a few times a year, some in good condition.

Remember that you're fortunate to be in the position to choose between two pretty good boats. Well Played!
And to whoever said a boat from the 70s must be on it's last legs: I, and many of my friends, own and use those boats, we see others who enjoy their older glass boats. The hulls seem to last well, and everything else can be replaced. You just have to factor in the cost, in time and money, of one boat compared to another.
Yes, beware of 'project boats' that need a lot of repair and replacement.
And yes, SOMETIMES FREE IS NOT CHEAP ENOUGH for an older boat.
But many of us can't afford $75K, or even $25K, and we still get out sailing on our boats from the 70s, and enjoy them.

[Sailing Hanse37]

Originally Posted by HeyHoLetsGo

Well, I just cannot, with good conscience in terms of finances, spend 75k + VAT on an ex-charter boat right now. Besides that, the availability of those in the baltic is not as good as in the med, I suppose. So it's either wait or look for something old but well maintained. And thank you for your wishes!

What you will not spend now you will spend on repairs and refurbishing. Do not buy a boat of this age !

[Thomas1985]

Buy the one you love. Boats are too much work if you don’t love it. The “practical” choice is the one you’ll lose interest in maintaining.

After viewing a lot of boats it just clicked when we saw what ended up being our boat.

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by HeyHoLetsGo

So I am currently shopping for my first boat (apart from a dinghy on a lake) for the baltic sea.
I've had a look at a Contest 30 and Westerly Longbow 31, both from the late 70s but in good condition. Had them inspected on the hard, no red flags but due to time constraints of myself and the sellers, I can only proceed to a sea trial with one at this point. I'm slightly leaning towards the Westerly, but still having a hard time to decide.

Which one would you choose and why? Any input is appreciated.

Contest

Pro:
- 5 year old Yanmar with 500 hours - that is nearly new so unless it has a fault is a strong plus, engine swaps are expensive
- standing rigging is 6 years old - these boat are heavely rigged so age is not an issue
- roller furling headsail
- mainsail in slightly better condition
- electric windlass with remote, but motor will need replacement very soon - definate plus for short handed sailing
- more freeboard, cockpit feels very protected
- tons of storage space
- larger water and diesel tanks

Con:
- wheel steering
- currently no self steering at all
- rather small cockpit - In the Baltic this could be a plus, small cocpits are great in storms
- no cockpit table
- companionway is kinda hard to use
- 200Ah lead acid batteries, 4 years old - that is rather small, if you are going to fit a below deck autopilot you need at least 400Ahr
- last 20 years: single owner, sailed a lot, probably 15k nm - Major plus on any older boat
- communication with owner is kinda slow and I don't expect any help after sale
- ~22k for purchase, new wheel pilot and new VHF (my budget is 20k, not set in stone, though)


Westerly

Pro:
- tiller
- tiller pilot and wind vane
- larger cockpit
- removable cockpit table
- new sprayhood
- easy to use companionway
- interior is in very good condition
- diesel heater - Yes but an easy thing to retrofit
- headsails in slightly better condition
- better head layout
- 300 Ah gel batteries, 3 years old. - Gell batteries are fragile and relatively short life expect toreplace by 5yrs old
- small dinghy in ok condition, no motor
- EPIRB which (barely) passes battery check
- spares, service kits, etc. for most things
- current owner will help in a two day delivery, provide training and will be available for questions after sale
- last 20 years: 10 on the hard, refit, then two owners who sailed maybe 5-7k nm - this is a suspicious history, 10 years on the hard often sees significant damage. Why has it been sold twice since the refit? All depends on the quality of the refit
- 18k ready to go

Con:
- 20 year old Volvo Penta with 1500 hours, but in good Condition. - no it isn't, a twenty year old engine that has sat idle for 10 years will need either a full rebuild or replacement
- standing rigging is a bit more than 10 years old, but in good condition
- hank on headsail
- manual windlass
- no wind instruments
- less freeboard

Both are excellent as a first boat but given your limited experience I would be inclined towards the first on unless you know someone who can really look at the quality of the refit on the Westerly. A standard survey will not tell you if the electrical system is about to fall apart or that all the seals have perished. A regularly sailed boat is in my view always a big plus and generally far better maintained

[captnandy]

No one has mentioned the main factor when mooring in the Baltic - in most places you will be mooring bow to the dock with a stern anchor or tying to a stern buoy. For single-handed you need mooring lines and anchors set up for this, so it is a plus if the boat already has been used in the area and has this equipment ready. Also you must be able to access the boat using steps that drop down at the bow, and so through the centre of the pulpit. Most monohulls in the Baltic have either a split pulpit, or a very low section right in the centre.

As the sailing season is generally pretty short, taking advantage of the summer daylight, sitting in the cockpit in the evening is one of the major joys, so you want a space that is comfortable and easy to setup. A decent cockpit tent or bimini is a big plus, for keeping rain and/or mosquitos out.

It sounds like the wind vane will be overkill for your needs for the first few years, but of course nice to have. For single-handing an easy to use autopilot will be very useful when you need to set sails, etc.

For Baltic cruising freeboard is not really an issue if you look at the classic skerry cruisers - they have virtually no freeboard! Of course, by todays standards highly unpractical, but beautiful! I would watch for overall keel depth and how the rudder is hung - there are lots of rocks to hit once you come up the Swedish east coast and into the Archipelago sea.

I am sure you will enjoy the area, lots of interesting places to visit!

Andy

[Icarus]

I think the absents of a cockpit table is a deal breaker.

Anyway, Number 2 seems ok..
At 1500hrs the motor has another 10.000 hrs up it's working life.

Asking strangers which boat to choose and why seems pointless.. no doubt you'll get 50 replies and 50 different opinions why A is better than B and so on.
Best of luck

[Perna]

My vote goes to the Westerly for all the reasons JimCate and Gulfislandfred gave.

A furling headsail would be an obvious future buy, I would say...

Good luck..

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by sinnerman

Having a windvane steering is a huge PLUS for solo sailing especially if boat does not have an autopilot.
Windvane steering units are EXPENSIVE and used ones (that will also fit your boat) are almost impossible to find on the market.

I've never been on a boat with a wind vane in operation, so I may be off-base here. But I've many many miles with an autopilot, even the old/simple/inexpensive/easy to install wheel pilot.


My understanding is the wind vane is a gem in distance sailing. It takes at least a few minutes to set up, and mostly requires that you be SAILING (not much use in a 20 mile motor home on a flat calm day). If OP intends to set a course miles away, and mostly sail that single course, the wind vane is a huge benefit, especially on a power-limited small old boat. Matt Rutherford circumnavigated the Americas on a 27 foot sailboat, and about 98% was on wind vane -- they are unquestionably valuable.



But, on the other hand, an autopilot is far more functional, especially for a single hander. I use mine for almost all significant distances (over 1 mile), but what is surprising is how often I use it for very short times (under 5 minutes). Push a button, it is on -- push a button it is off. So I can hit Auto, go get a snack, pee, trim, raise, or lower a sail, look at a chart, etc, etc. None of that can be done with a wind vane (as I understand it). In busy waters, the Auto can be disengaged or put in a 20 degree course change to avoid another boat, I'm not sure that is convenient on a wind vane.


An especially "odd" use of an autopilot when solo is how valuable it is in highly congested waters (harbor, twisty channel, lots of boats, etc). I may be standing right at the helm, but by having Auto on, I can be looking at the chart, looking through binoculars to find a mark, taking bearings on a potential issue with another boat, etc -- and the boat will never waver from her course. But if something goes sideways and I need instant response, it's a button push, and I'm in full control.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I've never been on a boat with a wind vane in operation, so I may be off-base here. But I've many many miles with an autopilot, even the old/simple/inexpensive/easy to install wheel pilot.


My understanding is the wind vane is a gem in distance sailing. It takes at least a few minutes to set up, and mostly requires that you be SAILING (not much use in a 20 mile motor home on a flat calm day). If OP intends to set a course miles away, and mostly sail that single course, the wind vane is a huge benefit, especially on a power-limited small old boat. Matt Rutherford circumnavigated the Americas on a 27 foot sailboat, and about 98% was on wind vane -- they are unquestionably valuable.



But, on the other hand, an autopilot is far more functional, especially for a single hander. I use mine for almost all significant distances (over 1 mile), but what is surprising is how often I use it for very short times (under 5 minutes). Push a button, it is on -- push a button it is off. So I can hit Auto, go get a snack, pee, trim, raise, or lower a sail, look at a chart, etc, etc. None of that can be done with a wind vane (as I understand it). In busy waters, the Auto can be disengaged or put in a 20 degree course change to avoid another boat, I'm not sure that is convenient on a wind vane.


An especially "odd" use of an autopilot when solo is how valuable it is in highly congested waters (harbor, twisty channel, lots of boats, etc). I may be standing right at the helm, but by having Auto on, I can be looking at the chart, looking through binoculars to find a mark, taking bearings on a potential issue with another boat, etc -- and the boat will never waver from her course. But if something goes sideways and I need instant response, it's a button push, and I'm in full control.

I quite agree with the above.

I have both a wind vane and an autopilot.

I would definitely put an autopilot on first. As a single hander, I consider it almost a necessity.

dj