Lowball offers on second hand boats

[boatpoker]

Boat #1
1993 -"Isle of Skye" C&C 37' trawler asking $72k bought for $42k I just changed the ownership with the baillif in the line up behind me. I won

Boat #2
2016 - "Dirt Free" Benford fantail 38' asking $80k, bought for $25k yet another who needed cash that day.

[S/V Illusion]

Should be obvious by now there is no answer here except “it depends” mixed in with a little anecdotal story about someone’s limited experience selling/buying one of two boats.

If you really want a good answer,talk to a broker you trust about a specific boat, not some generality.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Should be obvious by now there is no answer here except “it depends” mixed in with a little anecdotal story about someone’s limited experience selling/buying one of two boats.

If you really want a good answer,talk to a broker you trust about a specific boat, not some generality.

"How much cheaper than the list price was your second hand boat?"

Are you offended that I answered the question as asked ?

[Shrew]

This isn't quite urban legend, but close. There are many examples of people selling or even giving boats away. 50% off of list is possible, and happens from time to time. But it is typically unlikely that an owner is initially that unrealistic, then suddenly amazingly reasonable.

The more common occurrence is the owner that sinks $$50K into a $50K boat and expects to sell it for $100K citing every penny for every bilge pump and tube of caulk he spent along the way.

These stories remind me of the old stories from when I was younger of guys finding 'barn finds' of classic cars covered in a tarp being sold by some unsuspecting widow. "It was advertised as a Chevy Corvair, until I got there and it was a mint 67 Corvette and she was selling it for $3,000!!!!" LOL!!

[Cheechako]

The boat in my avatar was listed at... $119K I think? (circa 1990) It was no cream puff and had been used mostly as a dive boat it seems. Had 3 dive tanks still on it.
Upon survey many issues were found. I bought the boat for $69k, I guess that is 58% of list price. But I spent a big chunk of money getting it very nice, including a paint job (hull, mast and deck), cushions and upholstery, windlass and ground tackle, one fuel tank, electronics and sails.
The mechanical and engine were excellent. Not one blister in the hull.
In the end I pretty much paid full price for it I guess, but it's the one boat I made money on when I sold it.
It was pretty much a canoe.

[mvweebles]

One additional note. In general, one-off boats are much more difficult to value than production boats. They of course take longer to sell and likely have greater price reductions as the owner feels-out the maret.

[TrentePieds]

lawnmower:

Buying a boat is not like buying a car. Nor is it like buying a house. The sensible buyer starts from an age-old premise that a "for sale" sign, whether a real one or a metaphorical one, whether in a shop window or in a marina, is an "invitation to bid".

You cannot know the seller's circumstances nor his mindset. Again, boats are not like cars. If one tire-kicker in a used car lot doesn't make an offer, the salesman/seller doesn't give a hoot. Another will be along before long. That is NOT so when the object for sale is a boat. When you make an offer on a boat, the seller (or his agent) will almost always make a counteroffer which will establish a starting point for a negotiation.

So bid what the boat is worth to YOU. Do not get involved in "market research". The statistical base is too small to render such a thing useful. From the seller's POV, there aren't all that many potential buyers, so he may be receptive to an offer far lower than "research" would indicate.

An example: About four years ago in my marina a FastPassage39, crème de la crème in my opinion - Billy Garden design, Jespersen built - just in from a circumnavigation, fully found and ready to go again the day tomorrow, sold for CAN$65K!

Bid what a candidate boat is worth to you. Let it go at that.

But remember also that on the day you pay for the boat you should put as much money again into a dedicated boat account to cover immediate essential repairs. Every month thereafter, if the boat is a thirty-footer, you should put $1K into the boat account. If the boat is a forty-footer, make that $2K a month. After, say, ten years of ownership you will find that ALL that money has gone to pay for the cost of OWNING the boat. That has nothing to do with the acquisition cost. It's an expensive hobby!

Bonne chance!

TrentePieds

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

"How much cheaper than the list price was your second hand boat?"

Are you offended that I answered the question as asked ?

Of course not. Why would you get so defensive?

I’m merely suggesting the OP should 1. look for reliable info on which to form a judgment rather than some isolated examples, and 2. Realize there are too many variables in this equation to answer with any specificity.

[Cheechako]

Time on the market as well as condition is a big driver in ability to negotiate. Knowing how many examples of that boat are for sale, and how long they stay on the market is valuable.
A fairly new seller thinks he's getting top price or more for his "special boat". Forget trying to negotiate with him. A broker has told him he can get a big price and he believes it. A year or more down the road he will be ready.

A first offer a bit on the lowball side can tell you a lot. If you offer say ....70% and the seller comes back with 5% discount, you aren't getting a huge reduction. If you offer 70% and the seller comes back with 85-90% of list price you are getting somewhere. If you go to survey and they find things you are already aware of you may reduce more.
It's always complex and really, you need to know your limits, it's not that you must get a bargain if it's the right boat in the right condition. But there are ways to save yourself some money.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Of course not. Why would you get so defensive?

I’m merely suggesting the OP should 1. look for reliable info on which to form a judgment rather than some isolated examples, and 2. Realize there are too many variables in this equation to answer with any specificity.

Tons of variables, not the least of which is that if you're unfamiliar with sailboats, and go to survey, you might spend a few thousand just to find out it's not the boat you want.

[sanibel sailor]

Many boats are sold because they are not being used. They sit and deteriorate before the seller acknowledges that he needs to sell. He recalls what he thought it was worth "back when." He asks for that. No bites, time passes, he lowers the price modestly, but not quite fast enough to keep up with the ongoing deterioration. Before long it is another overpriced project boat. Seller still wishing it was worth more. Or worse, he already bought the next boat that is taking his attention and he's hoping for a big sale to offset the new boat cost.

In my opinion, it is ALWAYS a buyer's market. Boats are expensive to keep and deteriorate if not attended to. Nobody "needs" a boat. Time is on the buyer's side. Almost never is a boat in "sailaway" condition. The key is being experienced enough to know what projects are manageable in terms of time, skill and expense. A lot of boats aren't worth the effort, even if free. I always offer low and am perfectly happy to walk away if it is not a great deal. There are a zillion boats out there.

That having been said, I am on the verge of buying a new boat that has been obsessively maintained. I inspected it closely and found only two minor items on the fixit list, both 30 minute jobs and one negligible cosmetic upgrade of maybe an afternoon. It is priced well above any other boat of this model. I will offer 15% below asking, but may be willing to pay full price.

[Statistical]

What you can get away with is very situational dependent. A boat someone just put on the market and doesn't want to sell likely will be firm on price. An estate sale where the boat hasn't been used in a year and has been on the market for three months? Completely different story. The family is just looking to get rid of it and $10K vs $20K is still $10K.

This also assumes nothing substantial comes up in the survey which can be used to discount the price. Some sellers though as just irrational. Their boat is their baby and in their minds it is still worth as much or close to what they bought it for. If someone is irrational then just walk away. There are plenty of boat out there.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Iron E

Tons of variables, not the least of which is that if you're unfamiliar with sailboats, and go to survey, you might spend a few thousand just to find out it's not the boat you want.

I see it all the time in real estate here in Florida.

Too many affluent and ostensibly intelligent buyers reliance on an inspection report before due diligence would show them it’s not what they thought.

[dlj]

Recent story: My brother was distressed and needed to sell his boat. Older boat, but in quite good shape for it's age. He was going to donate it. I told him he was nuts. So he said, OK, then you sell it.... I went to the a users group for that kind of boat and posted a for sale ad, but priced it low thinking it would sell fast and my brother wanted it gone fast. I ended up getting offers that were 20% of the low price I'd placed and some real a$$ holes responding. I bumped the price up $35k, placing it in the mid-range of what those boats were going for and it sold within a week. No insanity, no drama. The buyer got a surveyor, at the end of the survey, it sold. As it should have been priced even higher, but a fast sale was desired...

dj

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

Perhaps you should state the price range that you are looking at. a $10k boat selling for $5k is more likely than a $200k boat selling for $100k.

Of course you can always offer below the asking price. make enough offers and you might get one. Oh and remember, there is no such thing as a cheap boat.

A couple of good points above. The lower the price can mean the more difficult, proportionally, to the existing owner is the cost of mooring,

Bargains may be found when the sale is by a third party such an estate or insurance company. No emotional attachment, and typically just want the boat gone and price isn't so important when measured against cost of retention along with other ownership costs. And always remember boats do not store well.

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Lawnmower I surveyed a boat last week that sold for 50% less than the asking price. The boat was covered with osmosis and the week before I had seen a written quote to repair osmosis on the same model boat. So I knew the repair price and the owner was happy to discount the boat to get rid of it.
Cheers

Fore and Aft also makes a good point, although there are a number of ways of looking at this. I wont engage on the specifics of osmosis (it rarely sinks boats). But some people's standards of appearance are very very high, where as others aren't so fussy. So such boats can be devalued by the owner/valuer/broker for perceived faults that others may disregard as cosmetic or easily repaired (if one has the right skills).

Just as an example my brother recently bought a boat that had sunk. She was fully insured and the insurance company had written her off. For a boat in that condition, interest wasn't high. She was stored in a yard and no one had determined the cause of the leak. Motor couldn't be run, and who knows what other damage had been caused by being immersed for at least a week (she'd sunk at her berth).

A low ball offer was accepted. The first discovery was that she had 800 ltrs of diesel in perfect order and after a week of effort the engine was purring like a cat and the hole in the hull identified and repaired. The boat had been a bargain and significant capital profit was made, plus much fun for a couple of seasons.