Lowball offers on second hand boats

[sailingharry]

List prices seen as surfing ads for sale tell you what sellers think they will get. Not very useful.

But brokers can get sold boat statistics. That's what other boats actually sold for. If a 2006 Bene 42 has seen five sales last year for $125K, you are going to be in the 125K ballpark to get one, regardless of the list price. If it's listed at $200k, you can bid $75k low. But if it's listed at $125k, good luck getting it for even $10k low.

My last boat, a '79 Sabre 34, was listed for what sold boats sold for. It was listed for 30% less than many on the market. It sold quickly for list, even after survey.

A better question than "what percent of list should I offer?" is "what percent of recent comparable sales should I offer?"

[jtsailjt]

I was shown a boat by a broker who worked at the boatyard where the boat had been stored indoors for 3 years without the storage fee having been paid so he made it clear that before the boat was moved that money was due. I made an offer that was about 35% less than the current asking price which had already been lowered substantially since the original listing because it was around 1990 and the market was very weak. When the broker presented my offer the owner swore at him and called him names and accused him of trying to “steal” his boat and hung up. So the broker told me there was nothing else he could do. A few weeks later I saw the same boat in an ad in the classified section of Soundings magazine and without telling the owner I was the one whose offer via the broker he had just turned down, ended up buying it for within a couple % of my previous offer and with the stipulation that he pay the back storage fees that were owed. So some owners aren’t exactly logical in the way they determine what they’ll accept. In my situation, the owner was mad at the boatyard/brokerage because they’d been pressing him about paying the storage bill so he was determined that the broker not make any money from the sale of his boat but was willing to sell it directly for a highly discounted price. Once the sale was complete I offered to pay the broker his fee but he refused since the sale had allowed them to recover their storage fees they were owed and because I was spending quite a few $$ at that yard on upgrades. So sometimes extenuating circumstances can make a big difference.

If it’s a boat you really want to buy and it’s priced fairly I’d offer about 20% -25% less than that and see what the owner counters with. If you aren’t in love with a particular boat you can afford to be more aggressive and offer 50% with the expectation that a lot of your offers will be turned down, but eventually you’ll be shocked when one of your low-ball offers is accepted on a boat where you least expect it.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

But brokers can get sold boat statistics. That's what other boats actually sold for. If a 2006 Bene 42 has seen five sales last year for $125K, you are going to be in the 125K ballpark to get one, regardless of the list price. If it's listed at $200k, you can bid $75k low. But if it's listed at $125k, good luck getting it for even $10k low.

Some surveyors also pay the high price for soldboats.com access, I do and use it in my survey valuations.

[Fore and Aft]

Lawnmower don't let the discount price fool you. Sometimes you're better off paying more for a good boat. I surveyed two identical Beneteaus this year and one was $20,000 more but was the better buy. New engine, rigging, sails and condition was the reason for the difference. The more worn Beneteau was going to be a constant drain on the finances, and I just thought less fun to sail if you are constantly worried about what is going to break next.
Cheers

[Chris Cringle]

You get what you pay for.

[Overdue]

Interesting thread posted here at CF: about a 1982 Cheoy Lee 44, in St. Maarten, originally listed for sale March 2020 $109k, seller showed total refit $127k (not including cost to purchase the boat) with lots of photos, kept dropping, last advertised asking price $48,900, then May 2022 posted that it sold. You might want to search (1982 Cheoy Lee 44) the CF forum to read that thread, including the many comments that members posted about the falling asking price and market value.

Good luck.

[spaman]

I saw a 11.6m popular French production initially offered at gbp69,000 located in Greece. Nine months later I met the new owner while he was replacing his standing rigging. He gave me the low-down that he bought it on Ebay on spec when it was advertised the week before Christmas at gbp49k. He won it but met the PO and talked it down to 40k having listed the various apparent defects (mostly cosmetic). Ultimately the seller just wanted to unload it. If he spends 10k it'll be worth 70k+.

[gulfislandfred]

I have spent the past 50 years buying and selling boats on my own, usually one or two a year. As a friend who's known me said,"It always costs more to fix up a cheap boat than to get one that's already fixed up.

But I've generally made money when I buy a boat to resell. I like to look at boat ads, and talk to sellers and buyers.
In the middle of Covid, I bought an Alberg 37 for $2000. The family of a man who had owned the boat for over 30 years came to me, and asked me to get it out of the marina before the yearly fees were due.

The boat had green mold an inch thick over most of the interior. I put on a mask, got a gallon of vinegar and a spray bottle, and sprayed the whole interior down, went away for a day, and sprayed it again. Then I spent a whole day and several rolls of paper towels, and more vinegar spray, wiped down every surface.



That was the worst part. Under the mold was oiled teak and white fiberglass. The boat cleaned up pretty well. Cracked paint on the inside of the cabin top, teak and holly sole had some water damage. I managed to get the old Volvo engine running. It hadn't run for 8 years, but it had been turned regularly.
The was a whole storage locker full of extra sails, a roll of anchor line, and also a huge stack of old newspaper and junk. It took me and a friend two long days to empty it. I'm still using the chest freezer that was in the storage locker.


I sold the Alberg to a young man who was specifically looking for an Alberg 37, for $17,500. It was clean, mostly empty, motor running, sails in good condition. His biggest job was to pull the inspection hatch off the fuel tank, and do a thorough clean in there.

Another boat story: Catalina 27, with an out outboard that didn't run. I spoke with the owner, gave him advice on how to phrase his ads, and told him to contact me if it didn't sell, and he was ready to let it go cheap
Two years later he called, and gave me the boat for free, if I could get it out of the slip. He owed a month of moorage. I talked to the marina folks, ended up paying $350 in moorage. Nice clean C27 with roller furling. I sold it for $1000, which was a hell of a good deal for the buyer.


If I'm looking for boats to resell, I'll be in touch with ten owners for every one boat I make an offer on. I tell them what I do, and that I hope they sell their bot to someone else. I give advice about ads - More Pictures!!.
Boats that I keep for a few years for my own pleasure are never profitable. I buy roller furlers, sometimes new sails, stoves and heaters. The point of those boats is my enjoyment, not profit.
Don't be afraid to piss off brokers or owners. The guy who was angered by your offer may be back in touch months later, if the boat hasn't sold, and the bills are piling up.
January is the best time for low offers, at least here in the Salish Sea. Holiday bills have come in, it's a long time until good weather, and people feel gloomy.

[DShant]

I think CaptTom and Trentepieds have it here. Bid what the boat is worth to you.

First of all as you know many boats have no good comparables and even if you are buying a common boat the condition on a boat is so important that the price of previous sales is pretty useless unless you know in detail what condition they were in. Of course if you are buying a newer production boat it is much easier to see what it is worth.



In the end the boat is only worth what you think it is. You are the one who will live with it after sale. If you are unhappy with the price you pay it will haunt you.

I have bought and sold many boats. I got great deals on some and sold a few at way bigger discounts than I wanted to simply because of the circumstances. You can get a super deal by just asking for it. There is no fixed formula. Don't let the broker push you around. Bid low if you think you need to, don't be afraid to piss the guy off. Be prepared to walk away. There are lots of boats out there, you will find another one.


By the way just sold my boat. Got exactly what I paid for it minus the river of cash that flowed into it while I owned it!

[TheLastPirate]

I offer 3-5k or so for anything 20k or under. I did it about twice a month for the past 4 years, bought three boats like that, am keeping my last one so I stopped low balling. In that time I'd say 20 people have said go look at the boat.
These boats were all blue water full keel boats. It costs money just to keep a boat, and some people just don't want to spend the money, are over the whole idea, can use that little bit of cash after no other reasonable offers, etc....it never hurts to ask. Be prepared to get insulted (although I don't recall ever being insulted) and being told "no" but that's sales , keep asking over and over till someone says yes, it works for boats, it works for women, it works for anything...ask enough people someone will say yes.

[lifeofreilly57]

The last boat I sold went for $500 under listing price.
I listed the boat for what I actually wanted for it, not an inflated asking price, and the add was worded that way. Anyone trying to lowball was just ignored.
I used to buy and sell auction boats, so I've sold a few and learned quite a bit.
First for me is mot having individual showings, there are too many tire kickers and dreamers out there who have no intention of buying, they just want to look, it doesn't bother them one bit to waste your Sunday afternoon for their entertainment.
When I sold boats I generally listed them for what I wanted at fair market with no or little haggle, but of course it requires that you actually list it that way.
Too many list at an unrealistic price then get upset when people lowball them.
I know everyone thinks their boat is a gem, but it's better to be realistic and know the market value, then judge an offer on the condition of the actual example.

[stavok]

If you are going to take the lowballing approach, I would recommend making lots of phone calls to start. Owners and brokers can only get so mad at you over the phone and they will be a lot kinder to someone who only wastes a few minutes of their time over the phone. Throwing a low ball offer after they have spent their weekend time traveling and to show you the boat will piss them off a lot more. Make lots of calls and be upfront that you are a bottom feeder. You only need one person to say yes and making 99 phone calls can be done quickly and for no cost on either party. You can always end by saying; "keep my number in case you change your mind" and hope they get worn down by the maintenance fees and surrender down the road.

[Tanqueray]

I have bought 2 boats in my life, both listed in the $30k range…

1) 1996 Hunter 280. Offered @$30k. I offered $25,500 and seller accepted that day. I later sold that boat for around $25k IIRC.

2) 1988 O’Day 322 - seller asking $30k. Someone else bought it for $25k before I got my offer in (was going to offer exactly that).

5 years later, the guy that bought it form$25k reached out to tell me he moved and wanted to sell the boat. He added a new Chart Plotter while he owned it. I offered him $22k, and he accepted that.


So, in round numbers, I think 15-25% off asking price is OK…hopefully not offensive. As others have said, specific situation, condition of boat, etc. can affect the 15-25%.


Greg

[hamburking]

I love this question!

Its possible to make low ball offers and have them accepted. But there must be a good reason.

Also, and this is important, don't be an *******. Be polite and respectful. The owner put tons of money, time, and possibly love into the boat. Show him some respect. Be honest. Tell him exactly what you are doing and why. Its not scam or a trick. BE NICE. Odd as it may seem, most people aren't very nice when trying to buy a boat.

I bought a 1978 Tanzer 22. Asking price $6,000. The owner had died. The boat had been on the hard for 3 years, accumulating storage fees. No one in the family sailed. I offered $1,800 cash. Left my offer as a voice mail. 3 weeks later they called me back and accepted. Launch was already paid for (at haulout), but I had to remove the boat immediately after launch. The outboard started, and I sailed away with my new boat. It took less than a day of cleaning and it looked like new again. It even had tiller autohelm. It was clear the previous owner took amazing care of the boat.

Next boat was in the early days of the internet. I found a 1973 CAL25 on rec.boats.marketplace asking $12,000. I like the boat, but it was far away. After some discussion with the owner, I found out the boat had been on the hard for 5 years. The owner said he we have been better off to give it away free on day one, because the storage fees were killing him. He agreed to $1,000 and to put it on a truck (marine hauler) to me. So I paid $1,000 for the boat and $1,000 for the trucking. It cost me another $300 at the marina to launch, get the inboard gas engine running, and put up the mast. I finished rigging the boat and sailed away. It was a great boat, tons of fun.

I bought a 1972 C&C 25. The owner had moved to another city. Before he left, he put all the boat stuff that would usually be in your basement, onto the boat. It looked a complete mess, like a floating storage unit. So anyone who viewed it (keys at the marina office) just walked/ran away. Asking price was $10,000. I offered $5,000. Accepted. He took the train in to meet me and complete the deal. I spent and afternoon removing everything from the boat. Put lots in the trash, sent some stuff home with my ride who had brought me down, including the steel cradle. That was possibly the best boat I ever owned. Kept it for many years and it was amazing!

Bought a Paceship 29. Asking price $6,000. I paid $100. Boat was used as a floating cottage. TV, microwave, too much stuff. What a mess! Showed terribly. I cleaned out the boat and sailed it home.

And finally, a 1971 Pearson 30. Little brother of Sailing Uma. Owner had come into some money and bought a new boat. No room at their YC, so had to sell immediately. I offered 50% of asking, and he jumped on it, happy to done with it. It was a GREAT boat... repowered diesel, chartplotter, autohelm, furling, etc. But no one wanted an old boat with lots of plastic wood below. I had many great adventures on this boat. Still regret selling it.

So yes, I guess I'm getting old and have bought lots of boats. There are deals out there, but you have to look. And you have to be nice.

[crosswire]

We wanted a particular style of boat; traditional, full keel. to go long distance cruising.
We knew that we would be looking at older boats that were going to need some work.

So as MicHughV said .....

My wife and found a 38 Shannon ketch that was distressed, with a blown engine, etc. that had been in a brokerage slip for 2 years. The broker wanted the boat gone. We made a 35% cash offer, and the broker tried to convince the seller that this was the best he was going to get. He countered with 40% and we took the boat. My wife and I refit the entire boat, deck to hull joint, rebuilt engine, pumps, instruments, hoses, wiring, sails, A/C, refrigeration, and so on. It was expensive, but we now knew the boat inside and out. Unfortunately, we had to sell the boat about 12 years and 10,000 miles later. We got back about 50% of what we had in the boat and were fairly happy with that amount, given our time on the boat.

Fast forward to last year and I needed a boat again. I found an Allied 42 XLsloop, again in distressed condition, the surveyor had found a chainplate knee ripped loose from the inside of the hull with extensive hull crazing and apparent delamination: major, unreported accident? A 50% offer was accepted. I had the hull repaired and I replaced the mainsail, refrigeration, A/C, all the pumps, some hose, and some wiring and off I went. The boat just finished a 3 1/2 month, 2800 mile trip to the Bahamas and back with no problems. My total outlay is now about equal to the original asking price.