Lowball offers on second hand boats

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by hamburking

I love this question!

Its possible to make low ball offers and have them accepted. But there must be a good reason.

Also, and this is important, don't be an *******. Be polite and respectful. The owner put tons of money, time, and possibly love into the boat. Show him some respect. Be honest. Tell him exactly what you are doing and why. Its not scam or a trick. BE NICE. Odd as it may seem, most people aren't very nice when trying to buy a boat.


So yes, I guess I'm getting old and have bought lots of boats. There are deals out there, but you have to look. And you have to be nice.

I think this is especially true. Offer what you're willing to pay which may well be substantially less than the asking price. but insulting the seller by telling him/her what a piece of junk it is will only make him/her defensive and gain you nothing. Much better to address it in a very businesslike manner and let the surveyor point out any shortcomings with cost estimates to make repairs, and then "regretfully" point out this factual information from an independent outsider who's supposedly an expert so he's the one who's seen to be the bad guy, but you and the seller must now, together address the information he's dug up regarding the value of the boat. If you keep the transaction polite and businesslike, the seller is more likely to do the same so you can come to a reasonable agreement. Keep any language that might evoke negative emotions out of your discussions.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I've heard a few stories now about people offering 50-60% of the online list price and getting the boat.

How much cheaper than the list price was your second hand boat?

Me? I've paid between 75%-100%.


In this discussion, it is important to distinguish between "project boats" and boats that are more or less in ready-to-sail condition.


A "project boat" would be any boat that is due for a significant refit or that has back maintenance with a cost exceeding around 25% or so of the value of the boat. A boat that needs to be repowered would be a project boat. A boat with a blister problem is a project boat. A boat with multiple deck leaks leading to widespread core rot or interior damage is a project boat.


"Project boats" often sell for far less than their asking price, often 50% or less. This reflects the reality that such boats are difficult to sell, at all, due to the high costs of refits, likelihood of hidden damage, complications getting insurance, etc.


Boats in good condition ordinarily sell for 90%+ of asking price in today's market assuming they are priced reasonably (in line with comparable boats recently sold). The boats that sell for less than that would ordinarily have back maintenance or features that are expected but missing, e.g. needing not only new sails but also standing and running rigging, an upholstery refresh, an electrical upgrade, etc.

[Sailing August]

Only offer what YOU are willing to pay for the vessel.....and not a penny more.
People get emotional about their boats and often think they are worth more than they are because they are emotionally and not logically vested.
Give your best price and hope for the best.

[AzimuthZero]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I've heard a few stories now about people offering 50-60% of the online list price and getting the boat.

How much cheaper than the list price was your second hand boat?

70% of asking price, however, there were extenuating circumstances, and I feel that the final discounted price was actually near the fair market value. Consider these factors:

1. Private listing, no broker involved.
2. Seller was not the world's most knowledgeable sailor, didn't know what seacocks were, for example. Bought too much boat and could not keep up with the maintenance.
3. No professional survey, inspected it myself with an assistant. Assistant found several important things.
4. Been on the hard for three years.
5. Met seller for an inspection and sea trial.
6. Found numerous undisclosed defects, not nit-picks, such as:
- Evident corrosion at the mast base/step which looked very bad from exterior with lots of pitting and powdery debris
- Four inch half-moon crack in the deck where an anchor had been dropped, some localized delamination resulting
- Mainsail way past expiration
- Evident corrosion at the turnbuckle swage fittings
- Play in the rudder shaft
- Bottom paint built up to unacceptable and rough levels
- Boom fittings and sheaves totally shot, needing 100% rebuild
- 15 year old chartplotter. Functional, but value zero.
- Most other listed electronic nav aids non functional
- Could not demonstrate function for the water heater or air con.
- Really sloppy DIY deck/cabin top/cockpit paint job.
- All Lewmar hatches and port light lenses badly crazed.
- Zero engine maintenance records and no hour meter.

7. The show stopper was a failed sea trial. Owner splashed the boat with minimal preparation after three years on the hard, put in a fresh battery and a couple gallons of diesel. We made it about 1/4 mile before he ran the boat (gently) aground on a sandbar, and then the diesel suffered a fuel starvation issue. We sailed off the bar on the jib, and returned under sail to the yard, where I composed my low-ball offer.

Analysis: In the end there was enough deferred maintenance on this boat that my final price probably reflects where boats of this type in similar condition should clear the market. It's possible I overpaid by a two or three thousand, hard to know, and I don't care. The used sailboat market is hard to analyze for "comparables". I have since 100% re-rigged, had the bottom stripped and barrier coated, had the diesel tank cleaned and fuel system serviced. A new mainsail is on order. The mast corrosion turned out to be not as bad as it looked, a minor issue. I'll do the deck repairs myself this summer. That deck paint job has to go, a somewhat bigger project than I wanted, now that I think about it.

I'm not looking to "make money" on this boat, but rather to build a secure platform for a decade of cruising. So far, I am more or less on budget with that, and I think I was well justified in negotiating a discounted price.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

I've heard a few stories now about people offering 50-60% of the online list price and getting the boat.



How much cheaper than the list price was your second hand boat?

10%, based on necessary repairs...