Lyle Hess 36

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Johnathon123

Management team seems impressed but a little concerned because the next 2 - 3 years will be coastal and bay sailing before we "head out" anywhere that might take advantage of the boats build and design.

Suggestion was to buy a different boat ore suited to coastal and bay work then in a couple of years look at a boat like this?

My head hurts!

If it is 2-3 years, not 12-13 years, then I would (biased, personal & IMHO) go right for the target boat without any intermediate stages. It takes some time before you learn what the boat is all about, what she likes / dislikes / can / cannot be asked for.

Sometimes I will meet owners who get stuck very early on their dream voyage - the boat being all new to them, good boat - but completely out of synch with the driver.

You will not have any problem coast / bay sailing in a boat that you will want to take beyond the horizon one day soon (provided the day is one day pretty soon, rather than a figure a speech).

b.

[Cherp]

Johathon...replacing decks would be a deal-breaker to me, unless you have lots of time and can get a very substantial discount. Take herself to look at the Mobjack.

[Jim Cate]

G'DAy James,

Well, it seems that this is indeed a special boat as it seemed from the ads.

I'm not sure what the management team means about a boat more suited to coastal and bay sailing. To me, those preparatory years should be spent learning and fine tuning all the systems that you will then need and use offshore. Changing boats shortly before becoming long term cruisers is a recipe for disaster! Every boat needs to be shaken down extensively prior to sailing off into the sunset. Not for a couple of weekend sails, but longer term... takes a while to really exercise all the systems and discover the weak links, etc.

But perhaps I just don't understand what the worry is!

But, from my own experience in seeking a "special" boat here in Oz... they don't come around very often! When you find one that is superbly constructed, well equipped, well maintained and that meets your general requirements, my advice is to jump on it! If a common production boat, one that is frequently represented on the market, meets your requirements, then the timing is less critical.

The poor performance in reverse is a very common. The only boats that really do well backing up tend to have spade rudders, narrow fin keels and flat bottoms. I used to watch Bill Lee backing Merlin (his legendary 70 +/- foot sled) around the marina in Santa Cruz (Calif) singlehanded. Very impressive, it was! But, the next boat that you lust after may well not back well either...

The head compartment is a bit spartan for sure. Without being aboard her, I'd not venture to make suggestions about changing it, but surely some improvement can be made.

And what is wrong with the decks? If they really need replacement, I'd think twice about it!

Anyhow, I'll follow your progress with the quest with interest.

Cheers,

Jim

[Johnathon123]

Hi Cherp.

It's a difficult one for me to swallow, broker suggested $5000 would see it done. I nearly laughed.

Mobjack problem is she is a ketch. For no logical reason (please do not be offended but educate me by all means) this isn't what I had in mind

[blgklr]

Make your last boat purchase now not 3 years down the road. Decide what qualities you want and find the boat now. If you were to change boats in 3 years you would lose money for no benefit. Buy the boat now and in 3 years she will be fitted out the way you want and you know everything there is to know about her.

[Johnathon123]

The decks are glued down Beech ( sika) i believe

They are rising in various spots and splitting in others so I think they need replacing

I wouldn't put Teak/Beech down again but would paint - less maintenance, less heat.

I have some time but it would seem a HUGE job to pull it up, fair it, paint it in a boat that is already marketed at $149k.

Maybe the owner is willing to do it - seems like a nice guy with plenty of time on his hands

I read a few past posts here and it seems ripping the deck off is messy and time consuming

[Cherp]

Jonathon.....as I said, the decks would be a deal breaker for me, unless they were talking maybe $30,000 off the agreed price. With the Mobjack, I've never had a ketch, but I would certainly consider one for a cruising boat. There have been long and involved arguments on here about ketch versus other rigs, but I think they would be fine because you just use the combination of sails required for a particular weather situation. As I said, I'm not a wooden boat man, but the Mobjack would spark my interest if I were. It's a good big boat - although an inspection might show she's good or bad. She also look a treat. If I had to buy a boat and immediately replace wooden decks, I would not be a happy chappie.

[roverhi]

Lyle Hess had the reputation for designing really fast, heavy displacement, traditional boats whose appearance was based on Bristol Pilot Cutters from the century before last. Lynn and Larry Pardey's Seraffyn and Taleisin were designed by Hess and have proven excellent sailors. The guy who got the idea for the 28' Bristol Channel Cutter or BCC was a variation of the Pardey's Teleisin. They have a reputation for swift passage making that is much better than their waterline would indicate. In short, if you are into this type of boat, and I am, you probably couldn't find a nicer one for the money. I'm saying that without actually seeing the boat, though.

Wood decks will check and sometimes spilt especially if they aren't teak. It sounds like these decks are glued to epoxy cover plywood or some such construction. If so, the wood is merely a surface coating, not a structural member of the boat. Since they are glued, it should just be a matter of chiseling the wood up, sanding the underlying epoxy deck smooth and repainting. When you say the wood deck is rising, assume you mean the decks are coming unglued. Hopefully that is all it is and not a problem with the underdeck laminate. In any case, at the asking price, I wouldn't buy the boat till any problems with the deck have been taken care of by the owner. Not a good idea to buy it at a discount for the deck unless you are a good glass/woodworker and KNOW FOR CERTAIN what the problems are. Let the owner take care of any surprizes.

Wood decks that are screwed into a wood cored under deck are something to run away from. Each of those screws is a leak source that can cause the wood in the deck sandwich to rot. A major problem to repair.

A ketch is a doubtful benefit on a boat under 40' or so. Lots of complication with additional mast and rigging, and not very good to weather. More of an affectation than a practical rig for a smallish boat. On larger boats, splitting the sails into smaller sizes has advantages and sailing efficiency disadvantages are somewhat mitigated by longer water line. A cutter rig with roller furling headsail, Solent rigged Asym, reefable staysail and slab reefed main are really easy to handle short or single handed.

[olaf hart]

Its misleading advertising to call that boat a Lyle Hess, the underwater profile is definitely not a Hess pilot cutter.
You should ask the broker who is responsible for the underwater sections, that is the designer you are buying with that boat.
I recall it was on the market a year or two ago, you might want to check if it was withdrawn, or if the new owner is selling and why.

[Johnathon123]

It was sold about 18 months ago. The owner has acquired a 45 foot aluminum to live aboard.

You are correct it is not a HESS keel it was modified , but not sure by whom.

The decks are not structural at all but I agree it needs to be the current owners problem.

He is getting a quote for the work.

The keel worries me a little, the boat has had 4 owners since new (2000). Maybe she is a bit tender? A test sail should tell but the owner swears it isn't tender

[hummingway]

Their doesn't seem to be any hanging lockers does there? If I was spending a long time aboard I think storage might be a concern.

[Johnathon123]

There are 2 giant hanging lockers one wet with a drain and one dry

[boatman61]

I'd wait and see what the owner comes back with on the quote for decks and any offer to cover the cost or at least share 50%.... meanwhile check out the other..
I checked the link but could not find it... but if you love the 'Hess' get it... boats like this don't come often... as said.. you need a little time and sailing to 'Bed yourselves in' with a boat before voyaging..
If you do get her I'd consider a layer of 'sacraficial glass' be added before painting... just to be safe... should not be a hard job to get done...

[Wand]

Originally Posted by Johnathon123

Went and had a look today.

The decks are a problem after just ten years, the head arrangement doesn't suit you at all, and the fin keel makes a lie of the claim that it's a Hess. These observations alone should be enough to make you walk away.

Then there's the quarter berths - great for rare occasions but a pain the rest of the time. And all that wide open internal space without the nooks you need on a boat to provide the illusion of personal space. It looks like a condo on a keel.

And okay, it's pretty and will turn heads but the pleasure to be had from these boats is in the building or restoration of the genuine article, inside and out. This vessel is not genuine in either sense - and you didn't build or restore it.

It's just a personal view of course but all I see is a giant toffee apple and reckon you'll tire of the silly sweetness very quickly.

There are hundreds of better options around at the moment for substantially less coin. My advice is to get over the romance and choose intead something which is better set up for what you want it to do.

[barnakiel]

I am not an expert in wooden decks other than I say (biased) they do not belong in the tropics.

What surprises me is that the boat is supposedly built year 2000, in such a case the problematic deck must have been pretty poorly done in the first place. It is only 10 years old after all!

Leaky decks are an issue and it will take a pro deck from your local boatyard to have a look at the specific issue and quote the repair / replacement cost.

b.