Mainsheet Traveler, set and forget or constant adjustment?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by AuChante

Any idea how to fix these? The Schaefer site looks like they have replacement cars and blocks, but that’d cost close to a grand. I imagine I could drill out the blocks on the end pieces and rivet new ones on. Not sure about the car. It seems that the metal base is bent up in the middle and is binding the pulleys.

I'm struggling to picture how all that was threaded, maybe the photo angle is hiding something. Do you have a photo with the control lines in place?

But for comparison, my traveller has a simple 2:1 purchase and with everything cleaned and maintained I have no trouble adjusting the traveller in any conditions. (This is on a 42 footer with end-boom sheeting).

I'd say pull that apart, straighten the bent bits, lube the moving bits (PTFE spray perhaps?) and it should work fine.

[AuChante]

Originally Posted by GILow

I'm struggling to picture how all that was threaded, maybe the photo angle is hiding something. Do you have a photo with the control lines in place?

But for comparison, my traveller has a simple 2:1 purchase and with everything cleaned and maintained I have no trouble adjusting the traveller in any conditions. (This is on a 42 footer with end-boom sheeting).

I'd say pull that apart, straighten the bent bits, lube the moving bits (PTFE spray perhaps?) and it should work fine.

Here area couple more pics. It’s a 3:1 system. That first picture is just with the traveler all the way to port next to the port block. It’s tough to see, but the two traveler pulleys are pinched in the middle and cannot turn. The end block pulleys definitely need to be replaced

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by AuChante

Any idea how to fix these? The Schaefer site looks like they have replacement cars and blocks, but that’d cost close to a grand. I imagine I could drill out the blocks on the end pieces and rivet new ones on. Not sure about the car. It seems that the metal base is bent up in the middle and is binding the pulleys.

Fixing your traveler

Traveler systems can be ad hoc meaning they can be jury rigged by any gear that works. You don't have to use the standard Schaefer stuff.

The whole idea is to make all the parts free of friction even under load.

The real critical piece is the car itself. It must be free rolling. You can examine it closely and see if it can be made to move freely. If it has rollers or bearings they must not be worn especially at the axel/roller. Probably this basic car will have to be a standard Schaefer part, but check it out to see if it can be servicable. You don't have to buy the whole car, you can strip off the parts which are still good. But it looks like you can replace the plastic sheaves on it if they show wear. The sheaves can be cheap and they don't have to be exact replacements as long as they fit and turn freely.

The double block on the end does not have to be that exact piece. On my boat I bolted some blocks to the deck but previously I simply tied with soft shackes two blocks to the end of the traveler track. Any blocks will do but I found some inexpensive blocks on the internet. Then you need to find a cam cleat or something to lock the traveler in place. I use Clam cleats.

You don't even have to stick with the 3:1 arrangment, you can put as many blocks on as you want. You just have to have some place to start and imagine/engineer how it will work.

Once you get a free moving traveler system you can learn some of the techniques described above in previous comments.

This photo is how I recently re-did my traveler, My boat is much bigger but you get the idea.

[Brioche]

I can't tell from the pictures how your traveller is set up. On some, the cleat on the far side releases automatically when you pull the traveller to the other side. On others, you have to release the cleats manually to move the traveller -- is there any issue there in your case?
When you are heading downwind and the boom is sheeted way out, the vang is the only way to keep the boom down and stop the main from twisting. But heading into the wind the vang and the sheet overlap in purpose. If you use the vang to keep the boom down, you can pretty much leave the traveller in the middle and only use the sheet to control the angle of the sail. If you shift the sheeting point to more or less match the position of the boom, then the sheet is able to both control the angle and also to tension the leach by pulling down on the boom. Then you don't really need the vang.
Personally, most of the time i prefer to only have one control on the boom tension. If I am heading downwind, I can always pop the vang to avoid trouble. Likewise, if I need to depower on a close reach, easing the sheet (with the vang already loose) I can let the boom rise a bit and spill air up high to reduce heeling and not give up too much sail angle.
I suppose if I were racing I might want to get a little fancier, but then I would probably have someone else to do the fine tuning, and for that matter would probably be back on my old boat with a fractional rig and backstay tensioner to handle the puffs.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Brioche

I can't tell from the pictures how your traveller is set up. On some, the cleat on the far side releases automatically when you pull the traveller to the other side. On others, you have to release the cleats manually to move the traveler -- is there any issue there in your case?

Sorry, there is no automatic release of the other side. Usually the main sail and traveler are operated from the high side of the cockpit, and you pull the line to move the traveler to windward. In that case the leeward side must either be slack or you have to un-cleat it. To let the traveler down you just ease the line. When you tack you move to the other side and, again, pull the traveler line towards you to bring the traveler up. When we are sailing upwind we come out of tacks with the traveler down and when the speed comes up we pull the traveler up and sail higher. In puffy or stronger winds the range of the traveler is a bit lower.

Reaching, the traveler is down.

Down wind the traveler is centered,

Use of the boom vang is another story.


When you are heading downwind and the boom is sheeted way out, the vang is the only way to keep the boom down and stop the main from twisting.
Yes

But heading into the wind the vang and the sheet overlap in purpose. If you use the vang to keep the boom down, you can pretty much leave the traveler in the middle and only use the sheet to control the angle of the sail.

That is called "vang sheeting" and we don't do it that way. The boom vang is only used when the mainsheet needs to be let out beyond the range of the traveler

If you shift the sheeting point to more or less match the position of the boom, then the sheet is able to both control the angle and also to tension the leach by pulling down on the boom. Then you don't really need the vang.

Yes, upwind you don't need the boom vang much. You use the sheet to tension the leech (and twist) and you use the traveler to change the sheeting angle without letting the leech twist off.

Personally, most of the time i prefer to only have one control on the boom tension. If I am heading downwind, I can always pop the vang to avoid trouble. Likewise, if I need to depower on a close reach, easing the sheet (with the vang already loose) I can let the boom rise a bit and spill air up high to reduce heeling and not give up too much sail angle.

I suppose if I were racing I might want to get a little fancier, but then I would probably have someone else to do the fine tuning, and for that matter would probably be back on my old boat with a fractional rig and backstay tensioner to handle the puffs.

Sorry, I sort of lost the drift of your questions, I was trying to explain how someone could fix that worn out Schaefer traveler.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by AuChante

Here area couple more pics. It’s a 3:1 system. That first picture is just with the traveler all the way to port next to the port block. It’s tough to see, but the two traveler pulleys are pinched in the middle and cannot turn. The end block pulleys definitely need to be replaced

Take it apart and straighten the pieces until it all turns freely, and make sure the rollers under neath are good. Replace or toss out the hold double end block stack and cleats unless the sheaves can be replaced.

[wpatch]

Originally Posted by AuChante

Any idea how to fix these? The Schaefer site looks like they have replacement cars and blocks, but that’d cost close to a grand. I imagine I could drill out the blocks on the end pieces and rivet new ones on. Not sure about the car. It seems that the metal base is bent up in the middle and is binding the pulleys.

I would try and take the pully's off then hit it with a hammer. Put the pully's back on with maybe a washer to offset them..the screws should let you re-set without replace.

[AuChante]

I'm going to measure these sheaves and order some new ones. I haven't done too much research on it, but it looks like that part is possible. Will try to drill out the rivets on the end blocks and replace the sheaves. If the worst happens, I'll just have an eye welded to the slider thing and shackle a regular ole block to it.


The traveler car looks bent, but I think it was designed that way. There's probably some spacers that rotted away long ago and everything is just binding.


Any thoughts on sheave types? Various plastics, brass, bearings, no bearings?

[TrentePieds]

AuChante:

I'm looking at the picture in post 17 of the track end on your traveler. If you are having trouble with hauling the car up to weather when you've got a bag full of wind, it may well be because the "wheels" of the car that ride on the underside of the top flange of the "I" section track have seized on their spindles, just as the sheaves in the end fittings seem to have seized like the turning sheaves on the car itself.

To fix that you need to take the endcaps off the of the track - the bits that carry the sister sheaves. With no load on it, the car should then slide right off the end of the track. I doubt that the car is made to be serviceable, so ultimately you may have to buy a new one. Let us see a photo of the "inside" of the car so we can see how the wheels are attached. Then we might be able to figure something out :-)

Meanwhile, clean up the surface in the track where the wheels run by sanding it with progressively finer grit "wet&dry" sandpaper. The magic "universal tool" or a Dremel tool would come in handy here. When the track is nice and smooth again, with all the corrosion pitting gone, smear the surface with a thin coat of "Lubriplate" or some such before you put the car back on it.

As your experience with cleaning your winch will have taught you, Neptune smiles on them wot keep their gear clean and tidy. Way, way back in a time long ago and a land far away we had a bon mot that said: "He who greases well, rides well!" True for seafaring folk as well as for peasants :-)!

My set-up (also a 5-ton boat) is the same as yours. But TP is not a racer, so I see no purpose in straining her gear at any time. I'm strictly a cruising man these days, and I leave the hardcore stuff to the racing folk. If I want the car further to weather, I just ease the sheet before I move the car. Then, the car moved, I trim up the sheet again. After a while you will become familiar with what the relative settings of traveler and sheet will do to your mainsl twist.

If you feel inclined, you could start a thread on the whys and wherefores of mainsl twist. I sure there are people here who will read you chapter and verse on THAT topic :-)!

Cheers

TrentePieds

[AuChante]

I've about gotten the end blocks done. Had to drill out the rivets and hammer them out. Had some SS Treaded rod welded in their place. Next is to throw on some new sheaves then tackle the traveler car. I got some Delrin sheaves from Viadana for $2 each but the center hole is a couple mm too small. I figured it was worth a shot to buff that hole out and save $10 per sheave.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by AuChante

I'm going to measure these sheaves and order some new ones. I haven't done too much research on it, but it looks like that part is possible. Will try to drill out the rivets on the end blocks and replace the sheaves. If the worst happens, I'll just have an eye welded to the slider thing and shackle a regular ole block to it.


The traveler car looks bent, but I think it was designed that way. There's probably some spacers that rotted away long ago and everything is just binding.


Any thoughts on sheave types? Various plastics, brass, bearings, no bearings?

For the traveler you can do fine with normal plastic (nylon or acetal) sheaves. If you cannot find them most machine shops can make them very reasonably.

You can upgrade to brass bearings or roller sheaves, at a good expense, but it isn't really needed.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by AuChante

I've about gotten the end blocks done. Had to drill out the rivets and hammer them out. Had some SS Treaded rod welded in their place. Next is to throw on some new sheaves then tackle the traveler car. I got some Delrin sheaves from Viadana for $2 each but the center hole is a couple mm too small. I figured it was worth a shot to buff that hole out and save $10 per sheave.

Be sure to cut off the extension of the threaded rod, those sticking up pieces will tear clothing and bums and lines.

[AuChante]

Originally Posted by wingssail

For the traveler you can do fine with normal plastic (nylon or acetal) sheaves. If you cannot find them most machine shops can make them very reasonably.

You can upgrade to brass bearings or roller sheaves, at a good expense, but it isn't really needed.

I had no idea that was a machine shop thing. I'll have to ask around.

Originally Posted by wingssail

Be sure to cut off the extension of the threaded rod, those sticking up pieces will tear clothing and bums and lines.

I will. I wanted to keep the option to add a tie-off eye in case I want to raise the purchase from 3:1 to 4:1. It's allot easier to shorten them than lengthen.

[Rumrace]

I don’t have a traveller and it takes some getting use to. Adversely I have a self tacking jib track and no self tracking foresail. It’s like the boat was ordered one way then commissioned another.
I was on a friends racer with the traveller in the floor. He adjusted it several times sailing without issue.
Apparently the track used on the previous model was a nightmare on parts now replaced with a web of rope. It’s always a touch off centre and I’m not sure if I can get it closer. Someone told me I can use the self tacking track with a line and ring for a light winds sail?

[AuChante]

Everything is back on the boat and ready for testing this weekend. Note that increasing the inner diameter (axle) of sheaves is no easy task. I destroyed one trying to do it with vice grips and a drill. I wound up using a drill press at work. I used a piece of 1/2" steel bar with an appropriate sized hole to clamp the tar out it so it wouldn't catch. I definitely wouldn't try it on something overly important without better equipment. I'm not even sure that these sheaves will fair too well.