Motion: full keel vs small catamaran.

[thomm225]

Boat pricing gets complicated.

I think with extra main and extra spinnaker plus a new carbon fiber mast after I destroyed the first one and new rigging, I had around $15,000 in the last beach cat that I raced which was a Nacra F-17 ( I-17R back then)

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Hmmmmmm not quite the same.

I’m jealous.

Except for paying for her expenses.

Absolutely gorgeous.

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor

I have a Spencer 42, she is long and lean only having an 11'4" beam. Mine was constructed with an 8000lb ballast keel over the 7k standard, and is a full keel with a cutaway forefoot.



Coming back from Alaska through Queen Charolotte sound last year I found myself in 16' seas coming in off the Pacific, first landing on our starboard bow then quarter.

She rode through it beautifully on other boats I'd have been terrified.

What I find matters the most with how a boat is going to go to weather and how she will ride is the design of her bow, I find that many so called crusiing boats with wide beam to length ratios slam and pound because their bows are made wide with broad shoulders as they prioritized internal volume over comfort at sea.

For some people that is a tradeoff they are willing to make, however personally I would rather have a finer sailing boat than one that is a glorified barge with sails.

To each their own but for me I will take the better sailing boat because often when I have been voyaging with friends who are in a "cruising boat" we are still enjoying hot food on my boat long after massive discomfort has set in for the Cruiser.

On the flip side I do have to be much more careful with my space to keep the boat comfortable, and I am somewhat limited to the gear I can take with me.

I would not trade her though as it means often I am sailing when others are motoring, and in those terrible conditions she has such better manners that the barge bow boats.

There’s one in FL for 70k. Might check in on her next year and let my wife look, but it’s out of the water, looks like.

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Boat pricing gets complicated.

I think with extra main and extra spinnaker plus a new carbon fiber mast after I destroyed the first one and new rigging, I had around $15,000 in the last beach cat that I raced which was a Nacra F-17 ( I-17R back then)

Boat pricing is ridiculously high.

Until the owner gets pinched and needs to sell it for a reasonable price.

That’s what it seems to me, anyways.

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by pianopraze

There’s one in FL for 70k. Might check in on her next year and let my wife look, but it’s out of the water, looks like.

If that is the Spencer 44, she is a Spencer 42 lengthened 2' with 12" more freeboard, a great boat with a bit better internal volume, they are well loved by those who own them.

I run the Spencer Yacht Owners Group on Facebook, so if you do wind up getting her you can find us there.

[flpaoli]

@pianopraze, from what you've told us about the Mrs, it seems extremely unlikely a monohull will be acceptable to her. Every monohull heels, some more some less, but they all do.

The Beneteau Oceanis 390 certainly heels. I sailed an Oceannis 40.1 and now I sail a 38, and I can confirm that both heel in light winds around 10 degrees, in strong winds around 20 degrees (feels like a lot more) and in gusts I've had it roll to 30 degrees, which is scary, and your wife would want to jump off.

Look for a cat or a trimaran.

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor

If that is the Spencer 44, she is a Spencer 42 lengthened 2' with 12" more freeboard, a great boat with a bit better internal volume, they are well loved by those who own them.

I run the Spencer Yacht Owners Group on Facebook, so if you do wind up getting her you can find us there.

Ty, will do if I buy her.

I fell so in love with a Formosa that I took cash (check) in hand to buy her. I had signed up to zeehag’s facebook… was so excited… until I got on the boat. Within 90 seconds I was devastated. Leaks/holes everywhere, chain plates twisted and one completely ripped out of the fiberglass, the engine literally had parts falling off it as I opened the compartment to see it. They had spray painted over everything on it, belts, rubber… everything. It was completely different from the beautiful pictures online.

Ever since then I just assume all boats will look like that until I see them in person.

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by flpaoli

@pianopraze, from what you've told us about the Mrs, it seems extremely unlikely a monohull will be acceptable to her. Every monohull heels, some more some less, but they all do.

The Beneteau Oceanis 390 certainly heels. I sailed an Oceannis 40.1 and now I sail a 38, and I can confirm that both heel in light winds around 10 degrees, in strong winds around 20 degrees (feels like a lot more) and in gusts I've had it roll to 30 degrees, which is scary, and your wife would want to jump off.

Look for a cat or a trimaran.

She would not like that much heel at all. That one I linked is beautiful, ready to take of to the Bahamas and in our price range… but she already said she doesn’t like it.

Yeah, 90% chance we will buy a Catamaran unless I can get her out on a full keel boat and see if she likes it. She felt safe on our Prout and that was everything to her. Plus we had so much space for everything. That’s important.

There just aren’t any in our price range available right now (in the USA) The 40k prout is in very bad shape - I would offer like 10k for and fix up, but wife said she didn’t want to do that. It is in worse shape than our Prout was we bought for 26k. I quite enjoyed doing it as I learned her inside and out.

I just can’t see buying a Gemini though. And most in our price range are Gemini’s. Looks like a Prout but slams even more and just not blue water friendly even if some have taken them blue water. Build quality also gets mentioned negatively.

Oh and I love being able to take my Prout to the beach and clean off her hull. Not going to be able to do that on a full keel. She loved going right up to the beach on our Prout and that’s what she says every time I show her a full keel boat.

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by pianopraze

Ty, will do if I buy her.

I fell so in love with a Formosa that I took cash (check) in hand to buy her. I had signed up to zeehag’s facebook… was so excited… until I got on the boat. Within 90 seconds I was devastated. Leaks/holes everywhere, chain plates twisted and one completely ripped out of the fiberglass, the engine literally had parts falling off it as I opened the compartment to see it. They had spray painted over everything on it, belts, rubber… everything. It was completely different from the beautiful pictures online.

Ever since then I just assume all boats will look like that until I see them in person.

When people are selling boats they have a bad habit of using pictures from years ago to advertise them, often this can be from several owners ago.

Something to keep in mind looking at that Spencer, each was a custom built boat for the owner who ordered them, and some were kits finished by the owner, so most are of high quality but there are a couple odd balls out there.

The hulls laid up by Spencer are hell for stout, and on the boats they finished the workmanship was pretty solid. In the end that was kind of their downfall, they became too expensive as the refused to cut corners to compete with cheaper built boats.

[Tupaia]

Have you thought about a Brown Searunner a Norman Cross or an Ed Horstman trimaran? Certainly available in your price range. Maybe a bit wider than you want.

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor

When people are selling boats they have a bad habit of using pictures from years ago to advertise them, often this can be from several owners ago.

Something to keep in mind looking at that Spencer, each was a custom built boat for the owner who ordered them, and some were kits finished by the owner, so most are of high quality but there are a couple odd balls out there.

The hulls laid up by Spencer are hell for stout, and on the boats they finished the workmanship was pretty solid. In the end that was kind of their downfall, they became too expensive as the refused to cut corners to compete with cheaper built boats.

How do you know the difference? Ask owner and hope they know? Is there a letter designation difference for home finished vs factory? A website with info?

Oh, and yes it is 44’. I missed that. 70k is top of our price range. You think price is fair? Newer Perkins.

I like the 40k one in Polynesia better especially for price. https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/196...er-42-9152962/

Biggest problem is room/privacy for teenager.

In a cat he could have privacy. I think Spencer only has back pilot birth? It’s not even shown in those photos for either boat.

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Have you thought about a Brown Searunner a Norman Cross or an Ed Horstman trimaran? Certainly available in your price range. Maybe a bit wider than you want.

Looking them up now.

I’ve looked at several trimaran and faster sailing sounds nice but 2 problems -we would need to pay a lot more for docking if we can even find it, and useually spaces inside ones I’ve seen is like a 20 something foot boat. Need room for teen, room for us, 3 year old and living space. Prout/gemini/edelcat/even Peugeot etc do this perfect.

Looking:

Brown Searunner: maybe, would need to see layout in person. None for sale, almost all links lead back to here to cf

Norman Cross looks good. Good space. Price 100k in Florida. Possibly one for 50k in Cali but wrong coast and I’ve soft vowed to never go back to Cali as I feel they are so corrupt as a state/had bad experience.

Ed Horstman trimaran looks good. 45k in Florida if still available.

I’ll look at the Florida ones when we start going in person if any are available.

Thank you for the info.

Care to post these in my recent thread in multi hulls? If not I will add this info later. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...vs-286937.html


Have to wonder about insurance as most of these were not factory built. I remeber USAA/progressive didn’t like non factory builds when I was looking last time. Googling now leads to older posts here on cf saying progressive did cover.

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by pianopraze

How do you know the difference? Ask owner and hope they know? Is there a letter designation difference for home finished vs factory? A website with info?

Oh, and yes it is 44’. I missed that. 70k is top of our price range. You think price is fair? Newer Perkins.

I like the 40k one in Polynesia better especially for price. https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/196...er-42-9152962/

Biggest problem is room/privacy for teenager.

In a cat he could have privacy. I think Spencer only has back pilot birth? It’s not even shown in those photos for either boat.

That S44 in Florida appears to have the factory interior in it. Usually you can spot the owner finished boats because the interior will either be super nice and super custom, or it will be poorly finished, the factory finished boats have a high quality finish, everything is very uniform, but little is custom.

The S42 in Polynesia is a nice boat, it is hull #4, I am acquainted with the guy who rebuilt her and he did a top notch job of it.

But with a teenager I would say you are better off with the 44, it has a fore cabin and an aft cabin, where as the 42 just has a v berth and pilot berth.

Honestly the worst part about the one in Florida seems to be the terrible quality of photos, but then again how old those photos are I do not know.

I would assume though for their asking price that she would still be that nice, if not they need to come way off the price. I have seen them sell for as much as 120k in the last 5 years.

[Wandering1]

We went from a Prout 37 to a Trintella 44 ketch. The Prout weighed 5.5 tonnes. We always kept it super light. It had foam core bunk bases, doors tables etc. All to keep the weight to a minimum. The Trintella weighs 18 tonnes. The comfort on the Trintella is amazing compared to the Prout.
The Trintella is better in every way. Faster, drier, bigger, we can carry everything we want onboard without a performance penalty. The Trintella is fin and skeg with 6 tonne of lead in the keel. Sails like a dream. My wife used to get seasick in the cat. She is a lot less prone to seasickness on the monohull I think because the motion is so much slower.
We have done Atlantic crossings on both boats, so lots of time to compare the differences

[pianopraze]

Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor

That S44 in Florida appears to have the factory interior in it. Usually you can spot the owner finished boats because the interior will either be super nice and super custom, or it will be poorly finished, the factory finished boats have a high quality finish, everything is very uniform, but little is custom.

The S42 in Polynesia is a nice boat, it is hull #4, I am acquainted with the guy who rebuilt her and he did a top notch job of it.

But with a teenager I would say you are better off with the 44, it has a fore cabin and an aft cabin, where as the 42 just has a v berth and pilot berth.

Honestly the worst part about the one in Florida seems to be the terrible quality of photos, but then again how old those photos are I do not know.

I would assume though for their asking price that she would still be that nice, if not they need to come way off the price. I have seen them sell for as much as 120k in the last 5 years.

We will look if still available next year. By that time the price will hopefully be more negotiable

I really think she will like a full keel at sail even more than a Cat. She’s pretty insistent at the moment we get a Cat.

Marriage, like mentioned above about boat building, is a series of compromises.