Need advice on first sailboat purchase

[shrspeedblade]

As someone who recently went from a 28 to a 33, I strongly recommend you listen to people advising you to get something in the mid 20s and then upsize down the road.

When people talk about comfort, the most import aspect of comfort right now is that you are comfortable as you are learning and sailing the boat

Looking back I almost wish I had started with something a little smaller than the 28, but it kind of found me and was manageable. I wouldn't even recommend a 30 to start. I know it's the bedrock of current American culture, but bigger isn't always better.

[PaulCrawhorn]

Originally Posted by YARGO

Why waist your time with the boat you are going to sell in a few years. Buy the boat you believe you will be able to do the type of sailing you expect to eventually do.

Because then the search for that "first and last" boat cock-blocks the noob owner from quickly getting out in the water.

Not to mention the systems repair / upgrading procrastination.

And finally, until you have the experience, you don't really know what your preferences are

that first boat 99% sure will not turn out to be the long term keeper

and all that time would be better spent sailing

[boatpoker]

I've told this story before but ....

about 18 yrs ago I surveyed a 47' Catalina for a fella that had never been on a boat before. It took him two weeks to get his stuff aboard and the first time he cast off from Pickering, Ontario he said he was going to Trinidad.

1 1/2 yrs later I got an e-mail from John ... "C'mon down to Trini. We'll have a blast. He has been a good friend ever since.

Sailing ain't rocket surgery. Almost anyone can learn to do it. Some learn faster than others, some need baby steps, some will never learn.

Much tougher to learn are the diesel, marine electrical, mechanical, rigging, hydraulics, fiberglass etc. My buddy John taught himself all of these and many other required skills and is very good at all of them. John is a very bright, determined fella.

He also saved a small fortune buy not starting at 26' and buying his way up in 2' increments.

Over the last 30yrs of surveying I've met many who started off with 35' + and most have been successful. Only you can say where you fall on the spectrum of Can Do, Might Do, Not a chance in hell.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by GRH

Wow, I can't thank you all enough for all of this fantastic advice. I really appreciate it. Well, it seems like the overwhelming majority here is saying keep it simple, minimize costs, learn about boat maintenance, and most importantly - spend as much time on the water as possible. I do belong to a club in Annapolis. So I will sail with them as much as I can before springing for the new (to me) boat. I like the idea of the Catalina 30. As many of you said, the Catalina 30 is big enough to be comfortable on an extended trip, but the maintenance shouldn't be overwhelming, assuming I find one in good shape. However, I will keep an open mind to other boats in that size range. Thanks again!

Hi, glad all those contradictory replies were helpful!


I've been on this forum for a long time and have read "your question" just about every time they were asked. Which is a few times a week.


I almost always refrain from replying, because the same answers keep reappearing, so my input wouldn't much matter.


But since I have some time this morning before the football games begin (yea 49-ers!!!), I have an observation to make that hadn't occurred to me before.


Many of our contributors, like me, are no longer young (I'm 76) and we literally grew up with recreational boating. I learned to sail at summer camp in Massachusetts in Beetle catboats, and sailed my first boat with a jib back then. After college and still working, I moved to San Francisco, rented boats for daysails out of Sausalito, and they were small, too, maybe 19 to 26 feet. We bought our first boat, a Catalina 22, in 1983, a Catalina 25 in 1987, and our current boat in 1998, skipping over the ubiquitous Catalina 30 in the process because it was just a bigger C25.


What this means is that many of us started small and grew, with age and income, into bigger boats.


What this also means to me is that it would be advice to be expected from "us guys", because as the boats grew, so did the systems and so did our knowledge.


These days, us same old geezers read about people buying 40 footers as their first boats.


Can it be done? Of course. But the learning curve is much steeper, and the mistakes can be/are much bigger.


And, in my experience, I didn't know what I didn't know, like, want or need until I had some experience, and that experience also got me out sailing.


Recognize, too, that likes, wants & needs are entirely different things, drastically different.


I bought and read just about every tome published, but the real experience of sailing and learning what I wanted, liked and needed to be three distinctly different things, brought me now almost 40 years of sailing joy. I found a builder who is still in business. I found a price point in each "upsize" I could live with and within, sold each one easily, and stayed with a builder who built a rather simple but sturdy boat that could be worked on easily. We rented bareboats in the BVIs and Abacos where the builder required you to remove the entire aft cabin cushion to check the bloody oil dipstick! My boat has a simple little door in the aft cabin to do so. It's those kind of things that in my experience you don't learn unless you Go Small Go Now and learn about, 'cuz those kind of details ain't in any of the books.


I raced and cruised each of those boats, from SF Bay to The Delta out the ocean and sailed this one from SF to British Columbia in 2016 where I now live.


While you can't know the background of each of the skippers who answered your question, consider that many of us had the experience of the past four or five decades in developing the replies.


I personally believe that buying big without any experience would be a costly error, an unforced one. I also don't think a week or two bareboating would help, 'cuz you're too busy enjoying your vacation. And crewing on a lot of friend's boats wouldn't either UNLESS you go help them WORK on their boats: systems, oil changes, transmission changes, all the other knuckle-busting work required to make things keep working and to know when to do so and how to keep records.



Whatever you choose to do, all the best and good luck.

[carlosproa]

Why don’t you consider a Chesapeake type of boat?
A Cat boat is as simple as you can get, enough room to weekend cruise, perfect for shallow depth exploring
This one here looks good, but high price. You can probably knock $5,000 easy.
Two boats down in the list is a more affordable also in your area.
Once you get good at handling a catboat, you will know your next boat design based on your preferences

http://www.chesapeakecatboats.org/ca...-for-sale.html

http://www.chesapeakecatboats.org/ca...-for-sale.html

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Hi, glad all those contradictory replies were helpful!


I've been on this forum for a long time and have read "your question" just about every time they were asked. Which is a few times a week.


I almost always refrain from replying, because the same answers keep reappearing, so my input wouldn't much matter.


But since I have some time this morning before the football games begin (yea 49-ers!!!), I have an observation to make that hadn't occurred to me before.


Many of our contributors, like me, are no longer young (I'm 76) and we literally grew up with recreational boating. I learned to sail at summer camp in Massachusetts in Beetle catboats, and sailed my first boat with a jib back then. After college and still working, I moved to San Francisco, rented boats for daysails out of Sausalito, and they were small, too, maybe 19 to 26 feet. We bought our first boat, a Catalina 22, in 1983, a Catalina 25 in 1987, and our current boat in 1998, skipping over the ubiquitous Catalina 30 in the process because it was just a bigger C25.


What this means is that many of us started small and grew, with age and income, into bigger boats.


What this also means to me is that it would be advice to be expected from "us guys", because as the boats grew, so did the systems and so did our knowledge.


These days, us same old geezers read about people buying 40 footers as their first boats.


Can it be done? Of course. But the learning curve is much steeper, and the mistakes can be/are much bigger.


And, in my experience, I didn't know what I didn't know, like, want or need until I had some experience, and that experience also got me out sailing.


Recognize, too, that likes, wants & needs are entirely different things, drastically different.


I bought and read just about every tome published, but the real experience of sailing and learning what I wanted, liked and needed to be three distinctly different things, brought me now almost 40 years of sailing joy. I found a builder who is still in business. I found a price point in each "upsize" I could live with and within, sold each one easily, and stayed with a builder who built a rather simple but sturdy boat that could be worked on easily. We rented bareboats in the BVIs and Abacos where the builder required you to remove the entire aft cabin cushion to check the bloody oil dipstick! My boat has a simple little door in the aft cabin to do so. It's those kind of things that in my experience you don't learn unless you Go Small Go Now and learn about, 'cuz those kind of details ain't in any of the books.


I raced and cruised each of those boats, from SF Bay to The Delta out the ocean and sailed this one from SF to British Columbia in 2016 where I now live.


While you can't know the background of each of the skippers who answered your question, consider that many of us had the experience of the past four or five decades in developing the replies.


I personally believe that buying big without any experience would be a costly error, an unforced one. I also don't think a week or two bareboating would help, 'cuz you're too busy enjoying your vacation. And crewing on a lot of friend's boats wouldn't either UNLESS you go help them WORK on their boats: systems, oil changes, transmission changes, all the other knuckle-busting work required to make things keep working and to know when to do so and how to keep records.



Whatever you choose to do, all the best and good luck.

The last two paragraphs are words of wisdom.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Hi, glad all those contradictory replies were helpful!


I've been on this forum for a long time and have read "your question" just about every time they were asked. Which is a few times a week.


I almost always refrain from replying, because the same answers keep reappearing, so my input wouldn't much matter.


But since I have some time this morning before the football games begin (yea 49-ers!!!), I have an observation to make that hadn't occurred to me before.


Many of our contributors, like me, are no longer young (I'm 76) and we literally grew up with recreational boating. I learned to sail at summer camp in Massachusetts in Beetle catboats, and sailed my first boat with a jib back then. After college and still working, I moved to San Francisco, rented boats for daysails out of Sausalito, and they were small, too, maybe 19 to 26 feet. We bought our first boat, a Catalina 22, in 1983, a Catalina 25 in 1987, and our current boat in 1998, skipping over the ubiquitous Catalina 30 in the process because it was just a bigger C25.


What this means is that many of us started small and grew, with age and income, into bigger boats.


What this also means to me is that it would be advice to be expected from "us guys", because as the boats grew, so did the systems and so did our knowledge.


These days, us same old geezers read about people buying 40 footers as their first boats.


Can it be done? Of course. But the learning curve is much steeper, and the mistakes can be/are much bigger.


And, in my experience, I didn't know what I didn't know, like, want or need until I had some experience, and that experience also got me out sailing.


Recognize, too, that likes, wants & needs are entirely different things, drastically different.


I bought and read just about every tome published, but the real experience of sailing and learning what I wanted, liked and needed to be three distinctly different things, brought me now almost 40 years of sailing joy. I found a builder who is still in business. I found a price point in each "upsize" I could live with and within, sold each one easily, and stayed with a builder who built a rather simple but sturdy boat that could be worked on easily. We rented bareboats in the BVIs and Abacos where the builder required you to remove the entire aft cabin cushion to check the bloody oil dipstick! My boat has a simple little door in the aft cabin to do so. It's those kind of things that in my experience you don't learn unless you Go Small Go Now and learn about, 'cuz those kind of details ain't in any of the books.


I raced and cruised each of those boats, from SF Bay to The Delta out the ocean and sailed this one from SF to British Columbia in 2016 where I now live.


While you can't know the background of each of the skippers who answered your question, consider that many of us had the experience of the past four or five decades in developing the replies.


I personally believe that buying big without any experience would be a costly error, an unforced one. I also don't think a week or two bareboating would help, 'cuz you're too busy enjoying your vacation. And crewing on a lot of friend's boats wouldn't either UNLESS you go help them WORK on their boats: systems, oil changes, transmission changes, all the other knuckle-busting work required to make things keep working and to know when to do so and how to keep records.



Whatever you choose to do, all the best and good luck.

VERY GOOD COMMENT. LOTS OF WISDOM & EXPERIENCE IN STU.

[Steadman Uhlich]

TO THE OP AND OTHERS LOOKING

There is so much to consider. Many boats, and many opinions. Best to learn as much as you can, weigh the options, research various boat builds/designs, etc.

Books can help. Videos on Youtube can help. Advice from CF forum members can help too, and there is a vast amount of it here on CF.

Since the OP said he would like to get a boat for use in Coastal USA and Keys, here is a discussion thread that may help. It has lots of boats described with pertinent features for that area, etc.

BOATS WITH SHALLOW DRAFT FOR FLORIDA BAHAMAS AND CHESAPEAKE
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ke-174548.html

[Tetepare]

Old salts: “hey, whoa, watch that boat there-“

New big boat owner after returning to marina: “you wouldn’t believe what happened to us!”


Yeah, we would, because we saw it coming.

[Paul J. Nolan]

I'm at a loss to understand how a man could be a pilot for twenty years and be asking others for advice on purchasing a boat. Perhaps you meant airplane pilot? And that reminds me...why is it that people seem to understand that before they purchase a plane, they ought first learn to fly, but seem to believe that they should purchase a boat first and only then learn anything about sailing? When someone asks for advice on purchasing a sailboat I'm usually amused, often imagining someone asking what woman should I marry? The only answer to that question is Son, if you have to ask, you're not yet ready...not nearly ready. I think the same is true of boats. Learning about either subject takes a long time, both educations are usually enjoyable, and equally interesting. The difference is it's easier and cheaper to get out of the wrong boat that the Wrong Marriage. Best wishes.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan

I'm at a loss to understand how a man could be a pilot for twenty years and be asking others for advice on purchasing a boat. Perhaps you meant airplane pilot? And that reminds me...why is it that people seem to understand that before they purchase a plane, they ought first learn to fly, but seem to believe that they should purchase a boat first and only then learn anything about sailing? When someone asks for advice on purchasing a sailboat I'm usually amused, often imagining someone asking what woman should I marry? The only answer to that question is Son, if you have to ask, you're not yet ready...not nearly ready. I think the same is true of boats. Learning about either subject takes a long time, both educations are usually enjoyable, and equally interesting. The difference is it's easier and cheaper to get out of the wrong boat that the Wrong Marriage. Best wishes.

And I thought I was a cynical one.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan

I.why is it that people seem to understand that before they purchase a plane, they ought first learn to fly, but seem to believe that they should purchase a boat first and only then learn anything about sailing?

Easy!

Standing on the ground looking up, you can easily see how failure of a plane soaring overhead (collision with something, vital equipment breakdown, pilot error, rough weather) can result in catastrophe.

Standing on the ground looking out to sea, watching sailboats gliding slowly by on the horizon under a blue sky, one might easily surmise that failure of a boat (collision with something, vital equipment breakdown, skipper error, rough weather) might not be that catastrophic.

You have to be on one in conditions for it to hit home.

[Jacky]

GHR, What's up?

I'm in the same shoes with you - well, you're a few steps ahead of me. Exciting to hear your plans!

I think the issue here might be the tight budget.

Let's say you're considering something between 27 ft to 32 ft. If you're planning to upgrade to a longer sailboat in the next few years, then a 22 - 26 ft will be the best option. Something like Catalina 22 or 25, with a simple outboard and a porta-potty as a head - an icebox will be the galley, of course. Buy as cheap as possible. You can fix everything yourself and sell her with the same price in the next few years. You'll be keeping your tight budget to the main sailboat you'll buy in the future.

If more money is coming in the future; let's say you'll have 70 - 100k available for a sailboat 3 years later, buy whatever you wish. If no significant amount of extra money is in the future, then another option may be a 32 ft-er. You might, as well, keep that one for a decade and do everything with her, from gaining experience to cruising purposes.

The endless options and opinions of experienced folks here and there are overwhelming, huh?

Good Luck!

PS: If you want to buy now and sell in a few years, I think you might consider going as cheap as possible. I wonder what experienced folks think about the used sailboat market after the Covid phase. Will it be a buyer's market?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Jacky

..........
...........


1. Let's say you're considering something between 27 ft to 32 ft. If you're planning to upgrade to a longer sailboat in the next few years, then a 22 - 26 ft will be the best option. Something like Catalina 22 or 25, with a simple outboard and a porta-potty as a head - an icebox will be the galley, of course. Buy as cheap as possible. You can fix everything yourself and sell her with the same price in the next few years. You'll be keeping your tight budget to the main sailboat you'll buy in the future.

2. If more money is coming in the future; let's say you'll have 70 - 100k available for a sailboat 3 years later, buy whatever you wish. If no significant amount of extra money is in the future, then another option may be a 32 ft-er. You might, as well, keep that one for a decade and do everything with her, from gaining experience to cruising purposes.

The endless options and opinions of experienced folks here and there are overwhelming, huh?



..............
.............

1. The concept is good. The examples are not. Why? I've owned both a C22 & C25. The 25 is twice the volume of the 22. With the hatch open you can stand up inside, and with a pop top (and the enclosure) you can in most of the saloon on the 25. We sailed the 22 for 3 years on Clear Lake during the summer weekends and stayed on board because the marina didn't let us stay on the boat in the marina overnight. Staying on the 22 on SF Bay just didn't work, too cold, too limited in space. We had the 25 for over a decade on SF Bay and it worked for overnights, although with limited systems. These two examples are not good for choices to make, they are completely different boats.


2. In my earlier post I explained why getting a big boat for a newbie is not a good idea, IMHO.

[sailalibi]

First I'd say get on as many boats as you possibly can. All the research in the world can't replace getting the feel for a boat in person. Plus it is so helpful to see how others do things - storage hacks and the like. And during that looking process your thinking may evolve.

I'd suggest something like an Allied Seawind II, 32 foot ketch, or another such small blue water boat. Great weekender for gunkholing in the Bay but study enough for any offshore sailing you might want to do in the future.

There is a C&C for sale up that way https://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa...436589417.html