Need advice on first sailboat purchase

[Jacky]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

1. The concept is good. The examples are not. Why? I've owned both a C22 & C25. The 25 is twice the volume of the 22. With the hatch open you can stand up inside, and with a pop top (and the enclosure) you can in most of the saloon on the 25. We sailed the 22 for 3 years on Clear Lake during the summer weekends and stayed on board because the marina didn't let us stay on the boat in the marina overnight. Staying on the 22 on SF Bay just didn't work, too cold, too limited in space. We had the 25 for over a decade on SF Bay and it worked for overnights, although with limited systems. These two examples are not good for choices to make, they are completely different boats.


2. In my earlier post I explained why getting a big boat for a newbie is not a good idea, IMHO.

Agreed.

My only point was the budgeting concerns, not the boats. Forget about C22 and 25. My purpose for the OP is how much of that 30k could be kept for the future boat.

If the OP spends, let's say, 27k to a sailboat, and two years later, due to some kind of after covid sales mania, what if even 5k couldn't be made with its sale? The outcome could be the opposite scenario too, but who knows.

It gives me a mild tension headache thinking what portion of that 30k will be spent on a sailboat that the OP will sell in a few years anyway.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by sailalibi

First I'd say get on as many boats as you possibly can. All the research in the world can't replace getting the feel for a boat in person. Plus it is so helpful to see how others do things - storage hacks and the like. And during that looking process your thinking may evolve.

I'd suggest something like an Allied Seawind II, 32 foot ketch, or another such small blue water boat. Great weekender for gunkholing in the Bay but study enough for any offshore sailing you might want to do in the future.

There is a C&C for sale up that way https://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa...436589417.html

That write-up sounds like a broker? It does look nice.

[canyonbat]

Something to consider…. Where are you going to keep the boat? A visit to a few local marinas to compare slip availability and cost might narrow your search. Anything besides keeping the boat in a slip or at an easily reached mooring with dinghy storage just sucks all the fun out of boat ownership. Even with our trailer sailer, we never go to the trouble of rigging and launching her unless we can keep her in the water for at least a couple of weeks.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by canyonbat

Something to consider…. Where are you going to keep the boat? A visit to a few local marinas to compare slip availability and cost might narrow your search. Anything besides keeping the boat in a slip or at an easily reached mooring with dinghy storage just sucks all the fun out of boat ownership. Even with our trailer sailer, we never go to the trouble of rigging and launching her unless we can keep her in the water for at least a couple of weeks.

Great advice. Buying the boat may be the least of the problems.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan

I'm at a loss to understand how a man could be a pilot for twenty years and be asking others for advice on purchasing a boat. Perhaps you meant airplane pilot? And that reminds me...why is it that people seem to understand that before they purchase a plane, they ought first learn to fly, but seem to believe that they should purchase a boat first and only then learn anything about sailing? When someone asks for advice on purchasing a sailboat I'm usually amused, often imagining someone asking what woman should I marry? The only answer to that question is Son, if you have to ask, you're not yet ready...not nearly ready. I think the same is true of boats. Learning about either subject takes a long time, both educations are usually enjoyable, and equally interesting. The difference is it's easier and cheaper to get out of the wrong boat that the Wrong Marriage. Best wishes.

I enjoyed reading your comment. Thanks for posting your view here in CF.

[Jacky]

Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan

I'm at a loss to understand how a man could be a pilot for twenty years and be asking others for advice on purchasing a boat. Perhaps you meant airplane pilot? And that reminds me...why is it that people seem to understand that before they purchase a plane, they ought first learn to fly, but seem to believe that they should purchase a boat first and only then learn anything about sailing? When someone asks for advice on purchasing a sailboat I'm usually amused, often imagining someone asking what woman should I marry? The only answer to that question is Son, if you have to ask, you're not yet ready...not nearly ready. I think the same is true of boats. Learning about either subject takes a long time, both educations are usually enjoyable, and equally interesting. The difference is it's easier and cheaper to get out of the wrong boat that the Wrong Marriage. Best wishes.

For a beginner, maybe the answer lies focusing on the NOW only, and not even worrying about the future steps and details. The best way, a newbie can help his future sailboat adventures is by being as cheap as possible at every step on the way. Let's say, if you've never sailed before, then just worry about the Laser or Hobie 16 you're trying to master nowadays - and do that around an ultra-tight budget.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Jacky

For a beginner, maybe the answer lies focusing on the NOW only, and not even worrying about the future steps and details. The best way, a newbie can help his future sailboat adventures is by being as cheap as possible at every step on the way. Let's say, if you've never sailed before, then just worry about the Laser or Hobie 16 you're trying to master nowadays - and do that around an ultra-tight budget.

Or a slightly more stable, seaworthy, and sailable daysailer option like a Sonar 23 or a Rhodes 19 or a Soling 27. Especially a self-tacking Soling 27. A great boat to learn to sail on. Deeper draft, fast, easy to handle. Relatively forgiving.

[Jacky]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Or a slightly more stable, seaworthy, and sailable daysailer option like a Sonar 23 or a Rhodes 19 or a Soling 27. Especially a self-tacking Soling 27. A great boat to learn to sail on. Deeper draft, fast, easy to handle. Relatively forgiving.

Sonar would be great for the purpose. I would go with a Colgate 26 instead of a Soling 27 though. Soling seems to me like a hardcore racer; possibly would require lots of advanced skills and a second crew when things get rough.

However, Laser and Hobie 16 are so much fun to a point I 'insist' nobody skips that step.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Jacky

Sonar would be great for the purpose. I would go with a Colgate 26 instead of a Soling 27 though. Soling seems to me like a hardcore racer; possibly would require lots of advanced skills and a second crew when things get rough.

However, Laser and Hobie 16 are so much fun to a point I 'insist' nobody skips that step.

Horse/course, Jacky.

Sonar, big cockpit.

Soling, easy to singlehand. Not as advanced or hardcore as people think!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by PaulCrawhorn

Because then the search for that "first and last" boat cock-blocks the noob owner from quickly getting out in the water.

Not to mention the systems repair / upgrading procrastination.

And finally, until you have the experience, you don't really know what your preferences are

that first boat 99% sure will not turn out to be the long term keeper

and all that time would be better spent sailing

Absolutely. For the newbie the key is time on the water. Not fixing things or endlessly searching for the “ perfect “ boat.

[Jacky]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Soling, easy to singlehand. Not as advanced or hardcore as people think!

Is she necessarily a comfortable boat for a beginner? Or rather a race boat?
Wouldn't some muscles be essential on windy days?
Aren't the control lines decentralized?
Isn't she a tad bit on the fragile side?
Is she self-rescuing? Forgiving?
****
Is Colgate a 'domesticated' Soling?
What is the story of Colgate26? What is the theory behind that design?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Jacky

...................

Is Colgate a 'domesticated' Soling?
What is the story of Colgate26? What is the theory behind that design?

I was always under the impression that it was a boat designed for "teaching."

[Jacky]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I was always under the impression that it was a boat designed for "teaching."

Well, I think I worded my opinion in a bad way.

I wanted to tell that Colgate 26 was designed for sailing schools, and Soling was designed as a race boat.

Of course, Colgate is not 'directly' a version of Soling or such.

My point was, Soling is for the racers of her days, and Colgate is for beginners.

So, in my opinion, compared to Soling, Colgate is a better sailboat for a beginner.

[Jacky]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Especially a self-tacking Soling 27. A great boat to learn to sail on. Deeper draft, fast, easy to handle. Relatively forgiving.

Well, you said self-tacking Soling; I missed that part. Okay, with such mechanism, it might be a relatively fine single-handed option - after some experience.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Jacky

Well, you said self-tacking Soling; I missed that part. Okay, with such mechanism, it might be a relatively fine single-handed option - after some experience.

Agreed. You need experience to handle one solo.

The learn-to-sail/ASA 101 class at the club I belong to is conducted on Soling 27s. Beginners who learn that way get exposure right away to the choppy conditions of Boston Inner Harbor, which opens to the southeast sea breeze prevalent in the summer. A 27-foot daysailer with a 4.25-foot keel is a better bet for that than a laser.

Of course, the club also has staff at the ready to motor out in Whalers to save these new sailors when they get into trouble. Nice to have those.

But in general, and the point of my contribution to this discussion, is that I'd counsel anyone who wants to learn to sail in the ocean to learn to sail on the ocean. Or at least on a body of water that opens to the ocean. No better way to find out if you like waves, wind, and getting soaked in salt water.

Unless you are lucky enough to learn to sail on the actual ocean on a miniature cruiser because your dad is a fanatic. Then you don't know anything else.