New bee needs advice

[Celestialsailor]

We all have our opinions and gain little good by pointing out where others are wrong. Sometimes it's best to leave well enough alone. I have had a Macgregor 21. It was a good little boat for the Monterey Bay...but that was it! It was very feeble in it's own way. I have also seen the clippers and feel they are built even cheaper.
IwanaBrich... Perhaps spend a few more bucks and get something like a Santana or Catalina of the size you are looking for. For your first boat it might be a good idea to get it turn key.

[watson1990]

Originally Posted by Bash

sheesh.

Also, about 18 -20 years ago i tried asparagus...
..they were awful..
I tried them again maybe 10 years ago ..still awful..
I don't need to keep going back and trying them...I know they are awful.There are those that like 'em..i think they are awful...they are what they are ...and Macgregors are fine if you want to sail around the harbor or maybe one of America's larger lakes..[not one of America's Largest lakes]
W

[Celestialsailor]

Tell em W!!!

[jkd]

Yup, look at the Santana's. Nice little boat, easy to handle, has a crank up centerboard for skinny water, fairly well built so it won't fold up on you if you bump into things while getting the hang of it. Many are listed cheaper than the price of the trailer they sit on. (do check the trailer over as carefully as the boat, springs and axels can add up quick) Check the centerboard cable to see if it is fraying, my brother lost his once and had to sail to a marina to get lifted out to install new cable. (couldn't get to the boat ramp due to depth with board hanging out and that steel plate (centerboard) is heavy.
Check the location of the port a pot, some chicks get turned off by sleeping with their nose 12 inches from the thing. (go figure)

Good luck with your search.

John

[David M]

Originally Posted by IwanaBrich

This is great advice and I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to pass on the flooded Clipper Marine. I really like the idea of visiting a few marinas, asking questions and see what happens.

My goal is to buy sailboat that my wife and I can play with, learn on and most importantly relax on. I used to love sailing smaller boats like Laser, Sunfish, etc but I haven't done it in a while and now I have more time. I ultimately would like a much larger (30'-40') sailboat, but before I do, I need to hone my sailing skills a tad . Most importantly, I need to insure that my wife shares my sailing enthusiasm, before I invest a lot of money.

Do you folks have any suggestions on a good trailer-able sailboat around 20' (give or take)?

Find an older Rhodes 19. This design has been around forever and there are lots of hulls to choose from. You can get one relatively inexpensive and they were well built in the first place. They are relatively stable because they have a fixed keel and are pretty dry for a 19 foot boat. You could even mount a two horsepower outboard if desired. I used to sail these boats once in a while. They are sweet little boats and very forgiving.

I just saw an old ad for one that sold for $1100. http://images.google.com/
That's a pretty good deal for what you get.

Class association: http://www.rhodes19.org

[rexposeidon]

my question before I suggest a boat is where do you live? What kind of waters will you be sailing i.e the Cheasapeake? Puget Sound? Great Lakes? What kind of vehicle do you have to tow your sailboat? You could even find an old Flicka on the hard in a trailer and hard up the would be worth the $ to restore and sail.

[IwanaBrich]

I live on Long Island and the boat will be mostly used on Long Island Sound and possibly on the Great South Bay or Peconic Bay. I drive a 2006 Toyota Tundra, V8, 4WD with a towing package. I'm not 100% positive but I think it may be difficult to launch sailboat with fixed keel at low tide at the Town ramps, so I think a swing keel may be better.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by IwanaBrich

I live on Long Island and the boat will be mostly used on Long Island Sound and possibly on the Great South Bay or Peconic Bay. I drive a 2006 Toyota Tundra, V8, 4WD with a towing package. I'm not 100% positive but I think it may be difficult to launch sailboat with fixed keel at low tide at the Town ramps, so I think a swing keel may be better.

Definitely a Catalina 22...

[rexposeidon]

You may try and shop craigslist or drive around and see what's just sitting collecting leaves in someone's yard. When you find something you think might be a good idea, let us know and we';; give you our opinions...
I do agree with the person who said find something you can sail now unless part (all) of your hobby/love (money) will be to work on it.

[Hud3]

I had an ODay 222. Swing keel, kick-up rudder, roller furling jib, and 6 hp outboard that charged the battery. It was a great little boat for day-sailing, night-sailing and over-nighting every now and then. Sold it for $5K six years ago, to give you an idea of pricing.

[RetiredSailor]

Originally Posted by watson1990

It has always been my opinion the Macgegor sailboats are rubbish. I know that I just made many people mad... they are correct to feel that way. I say that because i feel that the macgregor is trying to be too many things at once and accomplishes neither very well.....

You haven't made me mad, since I realize McGregor is a bad word among many sailors. But I'd like to say the McGregor is the best piece of rubbish I ever owned I had a Mac 25 swing keel, which is the traditional sloop, not the 26 water ballast or the 26 hybrid motor sailer. I owned it for about five years when I first started sailing and I felt sad when I sold it and moved up to larger and stronger boats. Bought for $5k, sold for $4.5k, so $500 depreciation for 3-4 years of sailing.

It got me into sailing at a reasonable price, I trailered it around the Chesapeake, the Potomac, and up to New York. I was able to single hand it with no problem, including stepping and unstepping the mast, putting it in and hauling it from a ramp. And with the pop top pulled up I even had head room down below.

As with any boat, it's made for certain conditions. I would never take a McGregor far offshore, or into rough waters -- though I did have it (unintentionally) in blows of up to 50 knots a couple of times with a small handkerchief for a storm jib. It's so light that it even planed for a while with a quartering wind. But I also strengthened it when I bought it, thickening the fixed rigging by one size and beefing up a couple of soft spots.

My most memorable sailing experiences were with that McGregor, probably since they were my first. Would I recommend it for an offshore sailor, or for sailing in bad weather? Nope. But for inland waters, for short coastal cruises with occasional overnights, and for new sailors who don't want to spend a lot of money, it's a good fit.

[watson1990]

Hey,
the basic rule of sailing is: sail what ya' got ...if it gets you on the water then do it.
While i was rather rude to the Macgregor owners,i didn't mean it to come out that way . There was no "EDIT" button and so i simply left it.
I learned on a 20' paceship day sailor so who am I to criticize? You do what you can .
I must say though,in my defense, that we all know that the Macgregor is not built to be an off shore cruiser,it does serve the public in its own way: Not too expensive,will get you on the water and as long as you don't overestimate your ability or the boats abilities you have a resonable chance of coming back to the same dock you left.
When I was typing my response Ihad in my mind [and that was what i was serching for ] a good offshore cruiser for 2 plus dogs..plus a work shop ,,,plus an extra cabin for guests with an extra head and hanging lockers ,,,and the ability to feel very comfy in 12 -15 foot waves .
When I define a wave [and i am prolly wrong,i think of the highest point ,back down to level ocean and then into the swell ...distance travelled ...so 7 feet up on the crest and then 7 feet down in the hollow= 14 foot waves ...that os my mind set .
When I read the macgregor post ,with that in mind i laughed ,,but had I given it another seconds thought ,i would not have posted what i di . i guess its a case of "where you are coming from "...and I had so many hours and days and weeks on my little paceship !!

[rexposeidon]

Originally Posted by watson1990

Hey,
the basic rule of sailing is: sail what ya' got ...if it gets you on the water then do it.

AMEN!

[IwanaBrich]

Watson, don't worry, I think its pretty clear that you did not mean to offended anyone and truthfully I don't think you did. I thoroughly understand what you are saying. To paraphrase, Sailboats are a lot like tools. There are better lines like Milwaukee and Dewalt and there are cheaper lines like Black and Decker or Skill. Which you choose depends on how often you use it, where you need to use it, etc. If you only need to drill a couple holes every once in a while a cheaper one is fine and that is where I think I am with sailboats. Whatever boat I buy, I only intend to sail (learn) on it for a couple seasons, then I want to move up to something larger that is docked or moored. I just want to avoid buying a maintenance nightmare or buying a boat that is hard to sail, etc.

All that said, I just found a 1973 23' Oday for sale near me. I haven't seen it yet, but the owner "claims" that it's in great shape (I know that leaves a lot of room for interpretation). He listed it as "best offer". First, would this be a good first boat or is too big a jump from a sunfish? Second, assuming the boat is in okay condition, what should I offer the guy? Is there a price range I should stay within?

[Pblais]

First, would this be a good first boat or is too big a jump from a sunfish?

It's a good boat to start with that is more like the bigger boat you want to get. A real keel boat is going to be the most realistic boat that gets you started. Boats in the 19 to 23 ft range will all be a good starting point. A bigger boat will handle different. A sunfish handles like a sunfish and while the basic physics are all the same it does not feel like a keel boat. This is a boat you could spend a full day on if you wanted. It can be adjusted for strong winds and can teach yourself all the fine points of sailing in various conditions. While the next step up won't be the same everything you learn all comes with you. We went from a 22 in a club for a season to some experience with a 25 then bought a 33 and currently the 36 (42 LOA).

As far as budget it would be nice if you could buy the boat and all the misc. door prizes and not put anything on a credit card you unless you pay in 30 days. I think I would look around at prices close to your location. Consider that one day you may be the guy with the boat for sale. The next guy could very well be just like you. They make new ones every year. If you fix it up nice you should be able to sell it for what you paid for it but not all the expenses of upkeep. If you think in those terms you can find a price that is comfortable to you.