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west coaster · 10-05-2008, 16:50

odd question, I know, but has anyone ever heard of ordering a new boat from one of the big production builders without an engine?

never monday · 10-05-2008, 19:05

I asked Catalina about this at a boat show. They wouldn't. It would have to be a custom or semi custom build. What size range are you looking at?

west coaster · 10-05-2008, 19:51

hi

thanks for the response. interesting.

looking at 36-38 foot.

i want to go electric and so the standard inboard diesel would be rather pointless, as well as having large holes in the hull for raw water and exhaust that I wouldn't need.

i know the electric propulsion discussions can be pretty controversial, but after much thought, investigation and analysis i've decided on the general system design i want for myself for a variety of reasons and don't really want to debate it. i just want to know if i can get a boat without the standard diesel. i have not broached this with the folks i have been talking to at the dealers yet, wanted to know first if anyone has done it.

cheers

never monday · 10-05-2008, 19:55

good luck with the project

rexposeidon · 10-05-2008, 21:15

Great idea, please share the details of what kind of electric motor, how many batteries you would need and how you would recharge them. I thought that a dynamo using reduction gears and a clockwork style spring would be able to produce enough power to recharge the batteries but never looked into it fully. I know that a company once called Baygen International developed something similar to power tv's and microwaves for people living deep in the bush, but all I ever saw out of them were really nice boom-boxes sold through sharper image, that would run for up to 2 hrs on 7 cranks of the dynamo.

Sailormann · 10-05-2008, 22:20

I can't see why it would be a problem to order a boat without an engine. Asking for modifications might involve extra cost and effort, but just not cutting a couple of holes in the hull and not installing the engine shouldn't be considered custom work.

www.asmomarine.com/

west coaster · 11-05-2008, 10:39

hi. although i didnt really want to discuss it too much (really just want to find out about getting a new boat with no engine nor associated thruhulls), but brief description:

actual exact set / electric motor up wil depend upon what boat (in particular shaft) and whether i can get it new w/o engine or late model used and re-power it.

batteries will be a bank of at least 6 (i would prefer 10-12 if i could bear the costs) 24 V lithium manganese batteries (77 Ah) which although quite expensive are light and can be nearly 100% deep discharged without ill effects which is absolutely key in this application. they weigh ca 40 lbs each, so 6 battery bank is ca 240 lbs.

will recharge with shore power at the dock and likely with onboard Whispergen genset. 800 W output and also acts as furnace and water heater. will wait until propane powered version becomes available in north america (within a year, accoring to manufacturer). this is light (90kg), provides power/heat/hotwater and on its own could recharge the entire bank of 6 batteries from a near zero charge state in approximately 18 hours (not that i anticipate operating it like this, it is, after all a sailboat auxilliary engine), or hopefully provide just enough juice for maneuvering. am waiting for propane version as i need propane on board for stove in any case and then can completely eliminate any need for any liquid fuel. less likely will go with Voller Emerald fuel cell when commercially available in north america, however this is (surprisingly) heavier and comparatively untested, while the Whsipergen is a mature technology. dont want weight and liquid fuel of diesel or gas genset. likely will supplement with solar/wind, but this could never be a significant contribution.

if end up with shaft drive, will likely go with solidnav or small OSSA powerlite (146 lbs). if can get engine-less boat will likely go with Re-e-power e-pod (65 lbs).

using re-e-power quoted numbers for the 3000 model and at 48 V, can expect at most (77Ah at 48 V from two 24 V 77 Ah LiMn batteries)/(50 A at cruising speed) = 1.5 hours per pair of two batteries. ie 4.5 hours from 6 batteries or 9 hours from twelve batteries. during this time if whispergen is on, would recharge to an additional 1-2 hours of operation, so you could add 1 to 2 hours to these estimates (again, this is a maximum).

project appears expensive, but would be greatly mitigated by savings from not buying an engine (if possible), not needing additional furnace or watermaker, very limited servicing, plus (small savings) dont need other house or starter batteries. i expect electricity charges to be similar to buying diesel.

at this point i would never argue that it will be cheaper than the usual diesel auxilliary arrangement, even considering operating costs, but the convenience and coolness factor is primary. also possibly fewer holes in boat,

possible weight savings depending on battery bank size (with 6 batteries total weight 240 lbs batteries + 200 lbs whispergen + 65 lbs motor + 40 lbs additional propane = 505 lbs compared with ca. 300 lbs for 30 hp yanmar + ca. 200 lbs for 100 L fuel + 150 lbs (house + starter batteries) + weight of tank and cooling/exhause = ca 700 lbs.

lack of smelly/possible flammable liquids on boat is intriguing.

anyway, still looking for that engine-less boat.

never monday · 11-05-2008, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by west coaster

lack of smelly/possible flammable liquids on boat is intriguing.

West Coaster,
Your "green" effort is admirable. But the above statement in comparison to a diesel auxiliary is off based. I'd consider not using this as an argument in your favor.

west coaster · 11-05-2008, 11:16

never monday

hi, thanks for your reply. like i said, benefits of electric/hybrid propulsiopn are always a bit controversial. I definitely take your point, if i understand what you are implying, that diesel is, obviously, quite safe, much less flammable than gas, and most well maintained boats, including my own, are clean and relatively odor free. also, i will point out myself that propane is quite flammable, and hydrogen gas from battery bank recharging certainly has to be considered, so again i think your point is well taken.

for the purposes of myself and my partner, however, we have occasionally (as in bleeding the engine while not at the dock, refueling from a jerry can etc) ended up with some diesel fumes, which we do not like.

as for flammability, while quite safe and certainly orders of magnitude less flammable than gasoline, diesel is definitely flammable, usually included in the list of flammable liquids for a class B fire extinguisher, and has been the cause of engine room fires, e.g. http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/mari...3/m03w0073.pdf as it is quite non-volatile, i do not believe it is explosive.

i'm sure you probably know a lot more about this than i do, and overall i think you are right, this should not be a main argument.

actually, i'm not sure how "green" electric power is is either - that is a complicated analysis - disposing batteries isnt very green nor is converting fuel to electricity and then to kinetic energy, where diesel engines skip the middle step. mostly i am very curious/intrigued and want what i perceive to be the convcenience.

anyway, i stand corrected.