Newbie looking for some advise.....

[JPA Cate]

So, with boating experience (what size?), you think you want to go straight to the forever boat? Some people think that is the best way.

Here's some more of why I think a 27-30 footer like a Catalina27 or 30 would be a good idea besides being a known quantity and easy to re-sell for about what you paid for it.

1. When we took our Yankee 30 to Hawaii and back to SF, we learned that one of its coastal cruising characteristics that we had formerly liked, was that it liked to sail at 15 degrees of heel all the time. That was why we bought a stiffer 36 footer. We also wanted more space.

2. On a longer trip, of 12-21 days, we found that simple trait of sailing on its ear tiresome. The only way to have learned that was to experience it.

3. We also learned that CNG is hard to source offshore, and that an icebox is inadequate refrigeration for a long and happy life at sea, for us. We lived okay for a year on the 36 footer, and then bought refrigeration and added insulation to the ice box.

4. Known brand, easy to re-sell. Buy a good example of one, and learn about doing your own surveys. Do a Custom Google Search (under the Search button) for Marine Survey 101. Monohull sailing is new for both of you. One or both of you may get seasick. It was years before I found something that worked well for me. [ Not everyone is as persevering as me.] For some, it's a deal stopper. We're all different. Some people also become frightened out of sight of land. Don't know if you've had that experience, it is not rational, to me, but it does happen.

Ann

One other thing for you to consider. I, too thought I wanted a center cockpit boat that ticked all our other boxes (we had written out a list of 21 things we wanted). Then I saw some. And Jim asked me if I really wanted to devote that much potential storage space to where we spend only 8 hrs or so a night. And as at that time an experienced cruiser of some 18 yrs., I decided I'd rather have space for guests and storage. All boats are compromises, but if both of your dream is for long term, offshore sailing, then storage and longevity become way, way more important than not having to kneel on the bed to make it. At least it has been so for us. You may rather have a 3 cabin boat, with one being your workshop and tool space, one for guests, and under way sleeping for you (aft cabins are often more comfy under way), and use the forepeak at anchor. This is what we do now. Also, cc is a matter of personal preference. All my experience has been with aft cabins, except the cc's we did look at. I prefer a more open plan.

A.

[guyrj33]

Sundeer

[Scaramanga F25]

Generally, power boaters prefer catamarans when moving to sail.

[racemethanol29]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

So, with boating experience (what size?), you think you want to go straight to the forever boat? Some people think that is the best way.

Here's some more of why I think a 27-30 footer like a Catalina27 or 30 would be a good idea besides being a known quantity and easy to re-sell for about what you paid for it.

1. When we took our Yankee 30 to Hawaii and back to SF, we learned that one of its coastal cruising characteristics that we had formerly liked, was that it liked to sail at 15 degrees of heel all the time. That was why we bought a stiffer 36 footer. We also wanted more space.

2. On a longer trip, of 12-21 days, we found that simple trait of sailing on its ear tiresome. The only way to have learned that was to experience it.

3. We also learned that CNG is hard to source offshore, and that an icebox is inadequate refrigeration for a long and happy life at sea, for us. We lived okay for a year on the 36 footer, and then bought refrigeration and added insulation to the ice box.

4. Known brand, easy to re-sell. Buy a good example of one, and learn about doing your own surveys. Do a Custom Google Search (under the Search button) for Marine Survey 101. Monohull sailing is new for both of you. One or both of you may get seasick. It was years before I found something that worked well for me. [ Not everyone is as persevering as me.] For some, it's a deal stopper. We're all different. Some people also become frightened out of sight of land. Don't know if you've had that experience, it is not rational, to me, but it does happen.

Ann

One other thing for you to consider. I, too thought I wanted a center cockpit boat that ticked all our other boxes (we had written out a list of 21 things we wanted). Then I saw some. And Jim asked me if I really wanted to devote that much potential storage space to where we spend only 8 hrs or so a night. And as at that time an experienced cruiser of some 18 yrs., I decided I'd rather have space for guests and storage. All boats are compromises, but if both of your dream is for long term, offshore sailing, then storage and longevity become way, way more important than not having to kneel on the bed to make it. At least it has been so for us. You may rather have a 3 cabin boat, with one being your workshop and tool space, one for guests, and under way sleeping for you (aft cabins are often more comfy under way), and use the forepeak at anchor. This is what we do now. Also, cc is a matter of personal preference. All my experience has been with aft cabins, except the cc's we did look at. I prefer a more open plan.

A.

we realized right away center cockpit seem to have less room, we plan on a long term stay on our boat and I'm sure with 2 grown daughters we will occasionally have guests....

[fred4936]

I will second the advice about a smaller boat first. We are transitioning from the Tartan 27 to the Pearson 34. Both are good, solid boats. The 27 is easier to sail, and does pretty much what the 34 does, with less room and speed. We looked for a smaller boat first to get the hang of things, and are glad we did! Much easier to figure things out when sails, lines, anchors etc. are more manageable, and less expensive.

[JPA Cate]

we realized right away center cockpit seem to have less room, we plan on a long term stay on our boat and I'm sure with 2 grown daughters we will occasionally have guests....

Between us, Jim and I have 5 kids, from our first marriages. His two and their partners, and one of mine and her family have come to visit us in foreign countries. What happens is that they (a) have little vacation time, (b) want to spend their holidays with their friends, and (c) find international travel quite expensive. So, although we bought a boat that could handle family visits, in fact, not as many visits or as often as we would have liked actually happened. I'm told this is not uncommon.

However, if your plan is simply to cruise coastally within the US borders, that will make you more accessible to your daughters than we were to our kids.



Ann

[Paul J. Nolan]

Threads like this one are never ending and all alike. "My wife and I are new to sailing," it starts out and then in the next breath, "Looking for a blue water monohull, used in great condition, 40 to 50 feet, give or take." And then, when you get the good advice you seek from a sailor that has more years under sail than you have hours afloat, as you did from Ann in the first response to your request, you and all others like you 1) argue with that advice and 2) assert that you really do have enough experience to have an opinion of your own, which you do not. I suspect you do not have the experience to even recognize an informed opinion from the mindless bilge rot that litters the internet. You want a fifty footer? Have you ever experienced the forces on a 35,000 lb. boat in a twenty five knot breeze where a piece of gear letting go can kill a man? Do you think your wife will be able to reef the mainsail under those conditions while you wrestle with the helm? Now imagine how well she will do it when it's 0200, the wind is increasing, the waves are huge and beginning to break, solid green water is coming across the foredeck, and you are laid out below with a broken femur? Far fetched? I recall a case where these exact circumstances occurred.

Look, you two want to go sailing? Fine. Accept that to do it properly will take four or five years of preparation. The first thing is to learn how to sail. Yes, to simply sail a small boat up, down, and across the wind in light, moderate and heavy air and then in really heavy air. When you can do that, you and she can look around the harbor satisfied that you know more than 85% of the "sailors" there. The best and fastest way to achieve that level of skill is for you and your wife to each buy a Laser and a copy of "The Sports Illustrated Book of Small Boat Sailing" long out of print, but no doubt available on Amazon. Also both get "Laser Sailing" by Dick Tilman or Ed Adams. Find a Laser fleet, buy the boats, and get afloat. Once you have gotten the basics down start to enter club races (you two should join a yacht club...as two boat owners). This will take at least a couple of seasons. You both will have more fun and learn more than you ever imagined. I have taught many people how to sail, a couple of whom went on to life-long success in the sport and, believe me, this is the best way to do it. I have known only one or two people who became good sailors who did not start in small boats. You probably won't be the third.

And yes, you two must learn in separate boats and the Laser is the best boat in which to learn. If you and your wife sail in the same boat she will inevitably defer to you, even if she's as strong-minded as can be imagined. All she will learn is how to trim the jib; she will never independently develop her own skills and never benefit from the confidence that skill inspires. And you will never know the pleasure of having a confident mate and companion. By sailing her own boat alone she will be forced to bear the Burden of Command, make her own decisions, and take full responsibility for the outcome.

This isn't the first time I've given this advice...but you asked for advice. One fellow I taught to sail became a life-long friend as well as master of his own boat and a member of the Island Goats Sailing Society. In fact I shipped aboard his boat for the Mack one year. A member of his crew was a woman who had sailed with him for six years. It turns out she had one job and one job only--handling the backstays. In six years she had learned not one iota of sailing beyond...the backstays. She told me she wanted to learn more, to get better and asked my advice. I suggested she buy a Laser and campaign it. She wrinkled up her pretty little nose and said, "Gee, I don't think I want to do that!" Now...are you and your wife going to become real sailors or are you gonna wrinkle up your noses?

Paul

[MicHughV]

I have to agree totally with the above post....down in south Florida the area is littered with big, beautiful, expensive boats of every description, equipped with every modern gadget money can buy, but..... that have never gone anywhere and all are for sale.

Almost all of them owned by " dreamers", invariable the husband, not the wife...
The first time many of these boats poke their heads out of the inlet and experience anything more than a 6" high chop, the wife will say, " ok, it's me or the boat"...and another boat hits the sales lot.

The yacht brokers love people like y'all....they know they can sell you anything and dazzle you with all the glitz and glory...and have probably sold the same boat over and over several times...

Try chartering a big boat first....this will quickly demonstrate to you the complications of just getting the thing off the dock....especially so, with wind and current against you, and then hoist the sails....by yourself....no help from skipper or crew...in a heaving sea...ok, good luck...

[Rockinar]

Originally Posted by racemethanol29

all great info, thank you

so far we have looked at several Beneteau 46, Hunter 45cc and Hunter 466, both my wife and I really like the 45cc and we think we prefer center cockpit

primarily will be sailing, USA east coast in the beginning, Key West and the Caribbean, and at some point we plan on venturing much further out......

Luke

Those are not "Bluewater boats".

[MicHughV]

what.....not " bluewater boats"....where do you come up with a statement like that...??

[Rockinar]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

what.....not " bluewater boats"....where do you come up with a statement like that...??

I dont consider plastic mass production boats "bluewater" boats. Fully capable, yes of course. When I think "bluewater" boats I think Island Packet, Pacific Seacraft, etc. Not something with spade rudders and a bolt on keel.

[MicHughV]

I guess that puts the Volvo around the world racers as plain unsafe, canting keels, foils, spade rudders, oh wait, they have two of them, so that's ok, or maybe they are doubly unsafe and does Hallberg Rassy belong to your "un- bluewater" classification..it has a bolt on keel.....hmmmm...very unsafe boat, I can name several more, but I'm not going to waste my time.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I guess that puts the Volvo around the world racers as plain unsafe, canting keels, foils, spade rudders, oh wait, they have two of them, so that's ok, or maybe they are doubly unsafe and does Hallberg Rassy belong to your "un- bluewater" classification..it has a bolt on keel.....hmmmm...very unsafe boat, I can name several more, but I'm not going to waste my time.

They are unsafe.. Thats why they have support teams stationed around the world with spares etc..

[Rockinar]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I guess that puts the Volvo around the world racers as plain unsafe, canting keels, foils, spade rudders, oh wait, they have two of them, so that's ok, or maybe they are doubly unsafe and does Hallberg Rassy belong to your "un- bluewater" classification..it has a bolt on keel.....hmmmm...very unsafe boat, I can name several more, but I'm not going to waste my time.

Yes all very unsafe and fragile, like your ego.

[chris mac]

If you like the center cockpit boats, look at some deck salon models as well. They tend to have some of the best features of cc's.
The newer model boats ,as you may have noticed, are a love/hate depending on your use. I personally dont have a problem with them.(bene and jeaneau, especially 42 ds are my preference)But I'm a catamaran owner, so those haters will already be questioning my choices[emoji16]
Get on as many boats as you can to see what speaks to you. Then try to get on and sail the ones you like. The sea worthiness is as important as the feel at dock.
Unfortunately picking a boat is like picking shoes. Strangers can rant about how this one is sturdy, that has better grip, ect. But you just got to try them on and go for a walk. The added benefit is ... it gets you sailing and learning. Enjoy the process, and see you on the water