Nine Years on the Hard

[sailvayu]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

For the price you pay for the boat (not including what you wouold have to spend extra) you can afford a ready to go, low maintenance, ex-charter boat... buy in the BVI's today and sail away tomorrow.

Its your choice.

I don't understand why anyone thinks buying a used charter boat is a good deal. Most i have inspected have been beat to s@#t put away wet patched with chewing gum and wishful thinking. If they were still good for cruising the charter companies would still be squeezing money out of them. They trade them because they are costing too much to maintain and all the equipment is falling apart. Get a boat that has spent most of it's life sitting in a slip and used a few weekend a year not 7 months of the year. I know some brokers that will not touch one with a 10 foot poll they know it come back and bit them.

Wayne Canning, AMS
projectboatzen.com

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by sailvayu

I don't understand why anyone thinks buying a used charter boat is a good deal.

Hi Wayne,

As I said its dependant on what each person has in their personal goal set.
A boat that sureveyed well today surveys well today. I would think most boats straight out of charter would survey better than the OP's. But how would I know?

The interesting thing is the for sale prices are the same.

Of course many will run from an ex charter boat and many will run for any particular type of boat.

Maybe we are luckier than most. We don't have the significant troubles of other cruisers. **Touch Wood** Hopefully it will continue with good regular maintenance and gentle use. All I know is they I retired at 48 years old and 8 weeks later 10,000 miles from home we had bought a boat and sailed away.

I do wish it was as easy for all other folks Unlike some who want vacant anchorages we love telling people that "yes, you too can be out here in the blink of an eye!"

Mark

[jm21]

No way would I pay the $50k they're asking. They're dreaming if they think they'll get that in this market at this time of year.

I haven't had a sailboat this large before, no. I have spent a lot of time on boats and am pretty familiar with the costs associated with the various boats my parents have owned (27' sailboat, 30' powerboat, 35' sailboat). I own half a 27' ericson but the maintenance costs are minimal.

I don't plan on going on a circumnavigation in the near future. I just turned 27 and figure I have to work a year or two before retiring.

My biggest concern, as I think I previously stated, is the diesel. I just don't have any real experience with diesels. I took an outboard that had been sitting for about 5 years, applied some new grease, and it works fine...but the diesels seem incredibly expensive to deal with from what I've read.

I have no idea what these people were thinking...they trucked the boat up here and just let it sit. Doesn't make any sense to me.

I own my own business that is pretty profitable so it's somewhat stupid for me financially to do work on the boat. I would probably hire someone to do the stuff I don't want to do or don't know how to do. I would almost certainly be better off financially working some extra hours at my business and hiring someone to do the work, rather than me doing the work.

I've looked at ex-charter boats and the prices are good for a boat of that age. However, the cost of taking the time off to sail a boat up here from the BVI would be in the tens of thousands.

If I waited a few years I could afford a much more expensive boat. As it is, it's very difficult for me to get loans due to starting a business not too long ago and I don't have wads of money saved up.

[Boracay]

Unless you're in love with this style of boat why would you want this one?

At a guess you're looking at 2000 (or more) hours to get the boat going, and another 50 big boat bucks (or more) to get the gear working the way it should.

So by my count you're looking at around the $200k mark before you'd be going anywhere.

Probably end up a beautiful boat for the money.

[Pblais]

I would say the engine is the least of your issues. Hulls are generally fine and few fail a survey. The stuff attached is where the big money lies. With a boat this large costs mount up quickly. The by the foot rule says at 48 ft she needs lots of lovin on a regular basis. My wife was into horses the better part of 35 years. The concept of the "free Horse" comes to mind. If you love the boat and the survey does not make you cry and you can afford it then you can get into the game. Consider it in those terms.

The problems really are few until you bring them home. This boat will need 100 hours per year of your time. I already assume you won't fall in love until after a good survey. It won't matter what the survey says unless you walk away. Do the math! You can pay what ever it is worth and still not be able to deal with the on going costs. This is one time where falling in love really is - all about the money!

I will say this much you won't be pulling into any port with the ugliest boat. She is a pretty boat. The photos also show she is nice below. It's what we can't see that matters now.

[Chief Engineer]

I have been personally involved in the management of a couple yacht projects. Basically it involves co-ordinating work with various contractors and keeping tabs on yard bills (that they remain honest)


[QUOTE=sailvayu;
If you have not done this type of project before hire a project manager (this almost nobody does but will save you lots of money and wasted time, my guess is you will think back on this and wish you had )

Good luck

Wayne Canning. AMS
projectboatzen.com[/QUOTE]

[jm21]

Well, getting some widely varying estimates as far as work needed. I'm set to check her out on Sunday and will post some updates/pictures if she seems decent enough to consider.

I really do appreciate all the advice. It's nice to have a wide array of opinions. This site and the people on it are an amazing resource and I hope I can contribute to it.

[Pacific Jewel]

I imagine that all of her electronics may be shot. Her hull will be fine - maybe better, sitting on the hard, out of the water. Dry. Drying. Hard to say; you need to truly look at all. Try to find a good surveyor to help. Some surveyors walk around with a hammer and cricky, not much help. I find myself up in the rigging. Looking for leakage evidence. A good surveyor will do what you need. Check for blister problems. This is the thing that will send me running if not treated properly.

But seriously, I reckon the electronics are shot. But then again, you're getting quite the bargain.

All the best.

[MarkJ]

Is a $1,000 survey needed now. Or a $100 shipwright or mechanic?

Always on the lookout to save a $ or 2

Could a mechanic or shipwright give a good enough idea before big bucks are spent on a survey?

[hoppy]

It you are worried about the engine, why not find out how much a new motor would cost and factor that into the guestimated rebuild price that you should do. Doesnt hurt to budget for worst case.

Originally Posted by jm21

I've looked at ex-charter boats and the prices are good for a boat of that age. However, the cost of taking the time off to sail a boat up here from the BVI would be in the tens of thousands.

You could always pay a delivery skipper and crew to sail a boat up.

[Cheechako]

Yea.... if you are just considering a 50 footer at this time in life because it's a bargain.... then I wouldnt do it, especially with a business to tend. It doesnt appear to be a well known brand of boat (?) and you could easily put $100k in it, decide you're not using it enough and get $50k back out of it! Any electronics 9+ years old can be considered "gone". They are either so out of date to be useless or not working probably. (ssb/ham radios excluded!) It'll cost you at least $500 a month for moorage alone probably. As mentioned above, the costs start coming in before you even own it! I dont want to discourage you, just think it through....

[jm21]

If I was going to use it as a weekend cruiser I wouldn't even consider it, but looking for a liveaboard on a somewhat limited budget it seems like a possibility. Part of it is that to get that loan amount my dad would co-sign and he wouldn't for a small boat. I'm also planning on living at a marina where the smallest slip is 36'.

Flying down to the BVI to look at boats then hiring someone to bring it up here sounds a little expensive for the ~$40k price range.

The only electronics I'm concerned with are the fridge, water pump, and depth sounder. If the radar's broken I could really care less...totally unnecessary for me. Autopilot would be useful though. Probably would replace the light fixtures with LEDs anyways. Similarly, chances are I'd want to replace the running rigging on a boat that old anyways.

[witzgall]

Also, refrigeration is almost certainly toast. If it is a refrgerated icebox, this means that both the mechanicals, and the box itself. Insulation degrades over time - anything over 15 years old is not holding the cold like it can/did.

It almost certainly has r12 refrigerant, which you cannot replace.

Chris

[sailvayu]

Originally Posted by witzgall

Also, refrigeration is almost certainly toast. If it is a refrgerated icebox, this means that both the mechanicals, and the box itself. Insulation degrades over time - anything over 15 years old is not holding the cold like it can/did.

It almost certainly has r12 refrigerant, which you cannot replace.

Chris

I can't really find much to agree with here. The insulation in my 1981 ice box is fine I have recently done some tests and could find no problems. I bought a AC unit that was new but sat on the shelf for more that 10 years. It is working just fine. I called the manufacture and he said I should get 10 years out of it no problem. Most refrigeration compressors are sealed units. If they have not leaked they should be fine. Also R12 is available but it is costly. The EPA says no more can be made but there is a market in recovered R12 so yes you can get it. And it is not so expensive yet that it would mean replacement for a working unit.

Wayne Canning, AMS
projectboatzen.com

[Cheechako]

yea, the R12 could be expensive, but not in the scheme of things I suppose. I would say the box should be fine..... especially in the PNW. If you want to live aboard, Look it over good and decide. Plan on finding twice as much as is obvious. make a list.... like one of those Pro-Con lists. At $50k and another $50k to make it right...=$100k.... remember it's a '71 boat. You can buy a pretty nice 40 footer for $100k that's ready to use, newer and may be more sellable in the future. 40 feet is plenty large enough to live aboard... unless you are a family... A nice Freya 39 sold recently for $79k or less, a Landfall '39 is less than 100K....