ocean cruising boats list

[Mike OReilly]

Yeah... I really don't get the heated animosity some people seem to present here over this primer. The main thrust of the Neale document is to provide an overview of the main design components of a typical cruising sailboat. I think he does this quite well.

It's not a master class in boat design. It's an overview of the main features, so that the average boater can gain some appreciation of how they work, and also begin to appreciate the balances or tradeoffs between various design choices.

The list is just his personal picks, and clearly is not meant to be inclusive of ALL boats. Heck, my boat's not even on it, so clearly he's misguided .

[OrinocoFlo]

Originally Posted by passage_paul

"Read that list, browse the boats, just do not hang up on what some people 30 years ago found relevant."




It is the reason of the list and post.. to serve as a way to get wheels turning for new folks...
Great point sir.


It should also be noted that many new folks do not have 100's of thousands to spend out on a boat initially. From my searching I have found OLDER boats to be less expensive boats.


Is there no room for peasants on the sea? Those with modest budgets should be relegated to a trailer house in a ghetto?...


If anything, this thread has shown that economic racism is alive and well...


I am curious tho..how many folks are financing their modern state of the art vessels and using credit cards to fund their travels???

We pay for everything using a 2% cash back CapitalOne card with no international currency exchange fees.

[barnakiel]

It may be due to the anxiety related to the coronvirus.


You are right the list is fine and a reference of a kind. As long as we are not treating such lists as bibles, we are actually blessed with their existence.


I wish, truly I do, that many of the boats from that list were still made today!


It would be a much better sailing world if we could still elect between a Rival 38 and a Bavaria 38. It is a shame those old boats are going away due to age, rot and, in too many cases, neglect.


For the properly rich one, few of these gems are still available new. I think this applies to Contessa 32, Marieholm 32 and the Rustlers in Europe. Maybe also something of the noble US brands like Morris (?) on your side of the pond.


So to say the negativity is not all that negative, given how much dirt we could throw at the boats that have not made the list ... ;-)


Send me this one:
https://www.rustleryachts.com/rustler42/


and I am as happy as a lark.


Yes, she is on the list. And rightly so, because it is a fast, safe boat that is well built and AVAILABLE new 2020, or just lightly used from the s/h market. Boats like this one SHOULD definitely be on a list of pretty things to look at when dreaming of the perfect cruising sailboat.



See, not all that negative at all. ;-)

b.

[lo2jones]

[QUOTE=robert sailor;3092513]It's an old list and while some of his picks are common sense others just point out his personal bias. He is a very experienced sailor but all that time has been spent in a couple of boat designs, primarily HR's. ...

I agree with the above. One of the few advantages one gets from being a boating instructor and delivery skipper is that you get to sail on a vast array of seaworthy and not so seaworthy vessels, and get to see the advantages and disadvantages of Offshore designs. The list is tilted towards heavy displacement boats. There are advantages to having a lighter faster boat when trying to get away from trouble. There are more than a few that are strong enough to stand up to challenging conditions. Wauquiez 47...or any of his designs, to name one.

[Flagfish]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

damn I'm not on the list, how am I going to get underway tomorrow

it always cracks me up when wannabes don't have the boat experience to choose a boat so go to a list, but think they are going to going on some big ocean crossing adventure

----------------------------------------------

Check your disdain; it happens. I bought a boat (Albin Vega) on both the lists mentioned, proceeded to learn to sail, then singlehanded to/from Hawaii in 2014.

[Fore and Aft]

Barnakiel the trouble with a electing between a Bavaria 38 and Rival 38 is that the Bavaria 38 is twice the internal volume and thats what seems to sell most boats. Who cares about seaworthiness when its all about living space and room for that second toilet and shower. The funny thing is I have surveyed plenty of Bavarias that have ended up here in Australia so are they any less seaworthy than an older design?
I surveyed a Rival 32 in January and what a pokey 32 footer she was compared to any modern production boat. The same week I surveyed/sailed a Dufour 365 that was only 4 feet longer and ten times the boat the Rival was.
Cheers

[Ken Fry]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

It's an old list and while some of his picks are common sense others just point out his personal bias. He is a very experienced sailor but all that time has been spent in a couple of boat designs, primarily HR's. So if you actually haven't owned a boat, or sailed that boat or maintained that boat your simply throwing a personal opinion out there with not much to support it. It is not a bad reference but until recently he never had a Catamaran, he's not a Catamaran guy but he is in the business of helping people select boats so he has added some Cats as without it he would lose business. I think he puts out some really good sailing seminars and good offshore training but when it comes to boat selection I would expand my sources.

This is an eminently fair assessment. I think by "old list" you meant that it is a list of old designs. Presumably, he adds a few now and then. Any list of "proven designs" must, by definition, be old designs.

I'd add that reading through his entire site is worthwhile, in large part to get a feel for his biases, but also because there is a lot of good information there, for a new sailor. There are a few boats on his list that I would put in the category of "cheesy character boats", (so would not be on my list at all) and the list leaves out many boats that have strong histories of crossing oceans.

Is it useful for a new sailor? Perhaps, in the sense that it provides a list (and supporting opinions, if you go through the whole site) from which one could start.... I guess. I, personally, would not buy a boat based on any list. Nor for that matter would I want to sail any of the boats on his list across an ocean. In my younger days, I admired quite a few of the boats on the list, and might have signed on to cross the Atlantic on one. Things are different now.

I am in the lunatic fringe. I find the notion of sailing any boat across oceans that cannot simply sail on when holed (say a 6" diameter hole, or ripping out the daggerboard trunk in a cat) unappealing. In my younger days... sure, I thought myself invincible. But now, I want "sail on" flotation, not simply "positive flotation." (Positive flotation means only that the boat doesn't completely sink when holed, but generally, the boat it is rendered useless for
going anywhere -- kinda nice in a small lake, but a life raft is better if you are many miles offshore.)

Yet even "positive flotation" is, to me, (and admittedly perhaps only to me) better than none. And not one boat on his list of monohulls has even "positive flotation" let alone "sail on" flotation. If I were forced to sail over to the Canaries from the US east coast in a monohull, and I didn't want to spend time in a life raft, I'd prefer a MacGregor 26 to any of the boats on the list -- at least I'll float around while hoping for a rescue. The MacGregor is arguably of stunningly low quality, but at least it will always float. And given some time and a wet suit or dry suit, one could fix the holes, pump her out, and sail on.

Sail-on flotation drove the design of the boat I am now building. But designing and building one's own boat is not something I would recommend to anyone -- and, even more obviously, not to a new sailor.

So... Lots of good information, but clearly slanted in a particular direction. Probably of more value to an experienced sailor who can see the biases, than to a newby, who certainly cannot... until she has read through numerous books on sailing and boat design. (Things like "Seakeeping... the Forgotten Element". Is that the title?) For a person who is attracted to a Norsea 27 (missing from the list), or any Pacific Seacraft or any Crealock, the list could be useful -- if you like those you might like these. There are certainly some designs that you will have forgotten about or never knew about in the first place: your perfect boat might be on that list.

Traditionally, we didn't have paid consultants to help(?) us up pick out boats. We'd sail on our own succession of boats, and on other people's boats, we'd do some chartering, and we'd read books... and eventually we'd develop strong preferences for what we really want... and we'd have a lot of fun along the way. Personally, I would not consider putting a big chunk of money into a boat, prior to owning the 10 or so boats that would lead to that decision. It kind of happened without having to think about it a lot for most of us, I think. Having developed our preferences, we'd poke around and find the boat we want on the market, etc. That was part of the fun. Can't say that I know anyone who hired a consultant to help select a boat. But for some people, that could be appealing, I suppose.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

It's an old list and while some of his picks are common sense others just point out his personal bias. He is a very experienced sailor but all that time has been spent in a couple of boat designs, primarily HR's.

Apropos of absolutely nothing, the original Mahina Tiare (a HR42) is up for sale. So if you want to grab a "proven bluewater boat"

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...ll-70-3578073/

[lituya1617]

My father trolled the waters of the Gulf of Alaska in an open 19-foot skiff with a small sail and large oars. The Gulf is nasty and dangerous and pulling lines by hand is tough work. He essentially lived on the sea days at a time and only returned to port to offload fish every few days. Admittedly, he crossed no oceans but the size of your boat and its configuration are secondary to seamanship. Any of thousands of 30-foot sailboats made of fiberglass are certainly easier to live aboard and more able to handle the rough waters of the Gulf of Alaska than dad's first skiff. Plenty of small boats have crossed oceans. When dad bought a 28-foot wooden troller with a single cylinder engine and a real deck, he thought he had gone to heaven. He fished that boat from Mexico to Kodiak and survived until he was 86. Moral of this story: a seaman makes the boat, not the other way around.

[Visarend]

How come I can never find my boat in a bluewater cruisers list? Encapsulated lead keel, heavy duty industrial Ford engine, 16 m mast, cutter rigged. The only reason I can find for not being included i9n any list is probably she being a one off I built exactly 30 yrs ago...

[slug]

I can’t understand the term blue water

A cruiser is straightforward

A sailing yacht is straightforward

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Visarend

How come I can never find my boat in a bluewater cruisers list? Encapsulated lead keel, heavy duty industrial Ford engine, 16 m mast, cutter rigged. The only reason I can find for not being included i9n any list is probably she being a one off I built exactly 30 yrs ago...

Like I said, my boat's not even on the list, so clearly it is an incomplete list .

[DDabs]

once I had someone call my marina and ask if we had "bluewater slips" available. I sat there on the phone not knowing how to answer that.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by DDabs

once I had someone call my marina and ask if we had "bluewater slips" available. I sat there on the phone not knowing how to answer that.

Probably years ago....8 foot bowsprit .

[rgleason]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Geez Sailorboy, that's a low blow even for you.

Save that for us that you know not for the relatively "new" guys

And BTW, which oceans have you crossed lately? (or ever for that matter) I have suddenly forgotten. (cruise ships don't count!)

Okay, you do have an excuse though as I understand you don't have the best boat for crossing oceans like I do.

Btw, here's a multiple ocean crosser purchased for $1,000. Bristol 27, 1973. With a Catalina Mainsail which I'm betting cost less than $200. (and your boat cost was ......to cross the 60-70 miles to the Bahamas?)

Good anchored out music .....

The boat in the picture is Sean d'Epagnier's Alexandra, a low carbon footprint, netzero, solar paneled, sculling oared, farsighted alternative.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app