Oceanis 44 CC tilted 3.5deg to port! Why??

[XtaSea]

This thread may end up shortening my boat search. The boat has everything I need/want. In fact, two of most things. So I'd have to downsize.

[oleman]

After a large shipyard event most commercial vessels are re-ballasted with lead pigs to restore balance.

[vpbarkley]

My Beneteau 40 has a 5 kW diesel generator in the port cockpit lazarette. It had a 1/2 degree list to port and looked low aft. I shifted a 500 lb. battery bank from far aft on center to midships on starboard. The boat is now in trim.

[MicHughV]

I looked at a Bennie 44 CC...I liked it...I had two CC before that, but the Bennie 423 came along at a price I couldn't refuse...the previous owner was severely financially underwater and just wanted out. On top of that, he had just put a brand spanking new Yanmar engine in the boat (it was originally equipped with a Volvo), less than 50 hours, when I got it. What was not to like about this deal. The boat was in factory mint condition. The 44 CC was as well, but for some reason, my days of CC boats had come to an end. I've had past relationships with Volvo engines, and the Yanmar, for me, was the clincher.

I sailed the 44 CC on a seatrial, and liked it, but the 423 is quite different. It is very fast. It's an excellent sailing boat. Fast and tracks like it's on rails. I would assume the 44 CC is the same.

The French designs have their quirks, but lack of speed is not one of them.

Generally speaking, you can find Bennie's at a good price. They are mass produced, which accounts for the reasonable pricing, but lack some of the finesse, for instance, a Hallberg Rassy would have.

The Bennie, mine, has a spade rudder. I would prefer a skeg hung rudder, but the rudder post is quite massive. I think most Bennie's come with an iron keel, which may account for the low pricing, but this has not been an issue in any way.

Another quirk you might come to appreciate. Some boats really sail around at anchor, but the 423 is quite steady, For it's length it has relatively low freeboard. I can't speak for the 44 CC, but would assume it's similar.

Bennie's are seen all around the globe, so one must assume they have a proven track record.

The listing issue has been discussed to death here, go take another look at this boat with new eyes.

[Mahayana]

We own a 1996 Oceanis 44CC. Remove the washer/dryer.

[chrisr]

not many boats trim perfectly level once they are being used and things start getting stowed / installed around the place

but remember, a mono has no righting moment when it is sitting vertically. it is only as the boat starts to heel that righting moment is generated...keel starts working and CoB shifts. this means that at vertical it does not take much weight off centre to start the boat heeling.

but does 3.5deg really matter that much ? afterall you're never level when you are sailing...

more importantly, how is the trim fore & aft ? should be a little bow down to allow for crew weight in cockpit

on a tangent : we have a generator in aft port - say 75kg. cats are very stable at rest yet this gennie causes us to change trim & list by 2-3cm / 2deg. i adjust for this by keeping more fuel in fwd stb tank.

cheers,

[auwekamanu]

Perhaps one of her fuel tanks is fairly empty and the other is full...

[Dave Isom]

I have a 14 tonne 40 foot steel yacht and by the time I was ready to set sail on my circumnavigation it weighed 15 tonnes and had a list to port as that’s where I could store much of my “ stuff “....in a “cave” on the port quarter. You’ve had much sensible advice on this post such as getting a couple of people to stand on the starboard side and look at levels. If you like the boat and sea trials sailing are ok go for it. It costs a lot of dough to set up a boat for offshore passages. This might be a good deal for you.

[XtaSea]

MicHughV, I agree with your assessment of the 423. For that reason, The 423 and 473 are the only Bennies I am considering for this circumnavigation. Of course still looking for a true bluewater cruiser, but the backup plan is the production boats because there are so many. The Sun Odyssey 45.2 was on my list as well, but quickly sank to the bottom after seeing what I saw. 1995-2011 models of the Bennies have decent structural integrity. Things have gotten downhill after 2013.

Mahayana, I may lose the first-mate if I do that.

chrisr, the fore & aft looked ok. The sideways tilt would take away some of the peace away from the passages in heavy weather as my mind would keep thinking about being closer to the tip-over point. It is more psychological than logical. I'd trim this boat properly if I buy.

Thanks to all of you for sharing your knowledge. Great ideas flowing.

[Rohan]

3.5 degrees isn't really a big deal. My boat is about the same if the tanks are empty because the fuel & holding tanks are on the strbd side, while the cockpit locker and heavy agm batteries are on the port side. But even if I don't correct it, it still sails just fine.

I think using lead bricks to balance it out is wasteful. There is always something heavy you already have that you can move around. I balance it out a little better by putting all my drinks, wine & water bottles, etc on the starboard side.

If it was something serious like a damaged keel that would definitely show up on Survey.

[skipgundlach]

Congratulations on your moving forward for your adventure.

As many have noted, your issue isn't a critical one, but it may be something you want to minimize or even perfect.

A very useful tool along with various forms of spirit levels is one like this:

Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Early_Major_Alterations_Work/00-2004-TheBeginning/12-04

You could measure the tilt of the deck on both sides, and then the mast, and come up with a true representation of relative-vertical, as well as, if it is in column, the degree of list.

It's also useful when tuning the rig, if you have built-in angle of rake as a spec by the maker.

Brion Toss is now dead, but did a couple of recordings, video and audio, about tuning your own rig; we've found them pretty easy to do, if you have any ear at all for pitch (the premise is to tap your shrouds and stays with something hard and compare pitches as to tighter or looser to equalize)...

Hope you get to go around!

[XtaSea]

Rohan, I can certainly live with it as long as I understand the cause of it. Of course, would do my best to mitigate it first.

Off the dozens of boats I sailed and hundreds if not thousands I have walked by on the docks, this boat has been the only tilted one. The first few friends who looked at it scared me off, but this thread gave me some logic and hope.

[XtaSea]

skipgundlach, hadn't heard of Brion Toss's passing. We ran into each other at boating events and he was always willing to share his time & knowledge. What a loss to the world.

The magnetic angle locator is pretty cool. I have two digital protractors, but will add this to my toolbox too.

[MicHughV]

I looked at both the 423 and 473.....there is actually very little difference between them. The 473 was the first Bennie I had actually stood on, but the 423 "looks" nicer in my opinion.
The extra 5' of the 473 is also going to cost you and an extra $100/month at a marina, haulouts, etc...The port side settee on the 473 is longer, you can lay down on it, you can't do that on the 423.
At the end of the day, the 423, to my eye, just looked more finessed....the 473, to my eye, was a bit clunky. I thought the 423 was better value and all round nicer.

I never sailed the 473, but I'm sure it is a fast boat, but most 473's I've seen were down at the rear end. The bottom edge of the transom is typically a few inches under water, and for a planing hull, this is a speed killer.

I routinely see 8 knots with the 423.

Getting back to the 423, me, I'd go for the lead weights....you'll probably need about 400 lbs, plus, to stabilize the boat.
That first 423 I looked at, with the list, just thru' me off and I didn't want it. I didn't know the cause of the list at that time, but that "list" just didn't seem right to my eye.

The only logical place on the 423, to add the lead, is behind the port side settee and nav station. It would likely require some work, as you don't want 400 lbs of lead flying lose for any reason. It would need to be glassed in solid. Any good yard can likely perform this task. I have no idea how much this would cost to do, but I'd try to get a quote and use that number as a negotiating tool when you make a final offer.

There is storage under and behind the port side settee, you could fill this up with tools, and anything else heavy, but I'd still go for the lead.

The stove and fridge are also on the starboard side, There is a reasonable amount of space their for food, etc, but it all adds up. The forward a/c lives under the starboard dinette settee as well as all bilge pumps, waters, pumps, etc.

There is limited storage in the bilge, but the 423 does have a centerline seat, which offers some storage.

In my opinion, you need the lead trim if you want to get rid of the list. I could not live with that list, it would drive me nuts, but that is me.

[jt11791]

3.5 degrees is nothing when you are sailing, but at anchor or dock, it is very noticable. My boat had a 1.5 degree list to port when I bought her and it drove me nuts. I complained to the original owner and he said, "yes, you have a major problem, but fear not, the fix is easy, your liquor locker (which is on the starboard side) must be refilled!"