Off Shore Boat Price Consideration

[Eddiefuego]

Ok...so if I and the seller agree on a price..with all goodies attached...and that the boat is as it is advertised...my next step is to shop for some insurance here, prior to getting my plane ticket? Then fly down to middle earth and look at the boat with my own eyes...if the boat is as it was advertised...look for a haul out and surveyer? Perhaps these could be lined up for here prior to going down. I pay for haulout and back... prior to hauling...and getting the survey done. $1500 more or less. check out the survey and if there is nothing major...pay the agreed upon amount. ??? The boat is registered in the US...now for paperwork...same time??. What do I need from the seller in order to actually own the boat? ...get boat back into the U.S.??? What due diligence do I need to do on the boat...and/or boat papers prior to heading down? I've done this with cars but not boats and not out-of-this-country.

[tommyh]

As far as price, its worth is, what its worth to you,unless your in my sitituation and have limited funds and have to hope for a reduction in price. Cannot answer to all the out of country problems.

[Kettlewell]

If it's a U.S.A. boat and outside the United States chances are very good it is documented with the USCG. Ask for a copy of the document to be faxed and you can check to see if it is current and looks legit. You can check with the CG that there are no liens on the boat, etc. You can check to make sure the document matches the boat. You can ask for a photo of the documentation number carved or otherwise permanently marked on the boat. You will need a copy of the old document and a official USCG bill of sale in order to change documentation to you. The PO has to mail in his document to release it from documentation first, before you get the document. You have to go through all of the official USCG paperwork, and no errors (cross outs, misspellings and such) are allowed. All of this nonsense frequently takes a few months, so I have found it is often worthwhile (when in the USA) to state register the boat temporarily so I can use it without hassle. When in the USA you can probably get through most officialdom with just a copy of your documentation paperwork to show that you have applied for documentation, but I highly doubt that would work when checking into most other countries, so you might have to wait a bit before you can leave wherever the boat is located. You may want to pay a company to handle the documentation, and if you do so I would check with them first to make sure you get all the correct paperwork from the other owner before he disappears with your money. Some countries allow non-citizens to register boats, so that might also be an option.

[Doodles]

You also want to make sure there are no local debts (liens) on the boat like marina fees or monies due for work done in Panama. These won't show up on a USCG documentation. I don't know how you do this in Panama but i wouldn't want to find out when I went to leave the country.

[Eddiefuego]

Originally Posted by Doodles

You also want to make sure there are no local debts (liens) on the boat like marina fees or monies due for work done in Panama. These won't show up on a USCG documentation. I don't know how you do this in Panama but i wouldn't want to find out when I went to leave the country.

Oh hell....how do I tell if there are marina fees or labor charges outstanding? Could these be anywhere in the Country? Once I turn over the money I assume my position gets very flakey.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Eddiefuego

Oh hell....how do I tell if there are marina fees or labor charges outstanding? Could these be anywhere in the Country? Once I turn over the money I assume my position gets very flakey.

You got it! Caveat emptor.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Eddiefuego

Oh hell....how do I tell if there are marina fees or labor charges outstanding? Could these be anywhere in the Country? Once I turn over the money I assume my position gets very flakey.

One way to avoid, if a bit messy, is to get the now becoming ex-owner clear the boat out with customs and harbour master. Also, there should be a related sentence in the contract - this will secure the buyer the right to demand compensation, should the boat turn out to have any outstanding fees and charges (lien rights).

b.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

One way to avoid, if a bit messy, is to get the now becoming ex-owner clear the boat out with customs and harbour master. Also, there should be a related sentence in the contract - this will secure the buyer the right to demand compensation, should the boat turn out to have any outstanding fees and charges (lien rights).

b.

First off I am assuming the boat is documented by the USCG. If not all bets are off.

There are marine lawyers who specialize in wording a contract to protect a client. This would include a clause about the seller providing a clean title to the boat. Of course a lawyer in the US would have to know what the law is in the country you are buying the boat in, or you might contact a lawyer there.

Just for the record I bought a documented boat in the US on 19 Nov 2012 and faxed forms to change the documentation. As of today the USCG is processing forms submitted 17 Oct 2012. I did keep the record of the fax date and all the forms along with the PO's documentation. These papers are sometimes called running papers and my understanding is they are accepted as temporary documentation until the real thing arrives.

Best of luck is sorting this all out.

[Eddiefuego]

Holy Cats! Lots of very good info here...thank you much! I will be getting the USGC documentation and checking on liens and such. I'm a little nervious about moving the boat from Panama/Guat into Bz due to the bad experience I've already had in Bz. I think they (Bz) are pretty enthusiastic about tapping the boating community for some funds. I'm not sure the boat price justifies the hassle. On that note....anyone know of a 36-40' blue water boat...not needing a raft of work for 30K$ or close...and in the U.S.??

[goboatingnow]

Ive bought and sold 6 boats of my own by now. I never incurr any costs in selling without a deposit. All costs associated with the survey are bourne by the buyer. Never let a survey be done before a deposit, all that is is a buyer looking for leverage. Boats only sell because the right person that wants the boat comes along. The dont sell , except in distressed situations to those that are looking for The Deal. The Deal is few and far between and always happens to the other guy.

Dave

[Eddiefuego]

Just bought a 78 Morgan Out Island in Bocas Panama. She's a slow fat girl and she needs a lot of work, but I'm in it and my sailing kitty was not damaged badly. Thank you for all the advice, it was very helpful. But now, I can start making all those mistakes I've heard so much about ...all for myself. Lots of work to do...lots of sweat...but the Dream has begun!

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by tommyh

So far you are the only one making sense. I in fact did pay someone 100.00 last weekend to sail a nice Cal 31 that is for sale. Worked out great,no pressure and seller felt good about it. And by the way it was a "nice "4 hour sail. After that experience that boat is high on my list.

"High on your list" Classic! I mean he was not even worth a 40% off offer? Just "High on your list"?

Hey, as long as you can talk these guys into it and don't mind his opinion when he finds out your program, why not? $100 is a pretty good deal for you for a half day charter and is a lot cheaper than actually owning a boat. You can make your 15K last for years doing that.

I also got a kick out of the rich guy comment particularly when the boat was 30K. Funny.

You've got it figured out!

[Eddiefuego]

Well, the adventure gets more interesting. I'm now putting a boatload of work into the old girl with not much in the way of ownership documentation. It's a little unnerving. The Panama waters seem to be full of pirates so my radar is on and active likely to the point of paranoia. I've not put much money down and indeed have not agreed to pay much for the old girl. But I don't want to pay much more at all if I can't get the correct paperwork. I have a vessel documentation number...and it sounds like I won't know anything from the USCG for almost a year! What are the questions I should ask the seller and what documents do I need to have in hand be actually be the owner? I also have a question about a previous marina that may be owed some money...no evidence...just possible. And, what documents will it take to get the boat out of Panama when the time arrives.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by sailpower

"High on your list" Classic! I mean he was not even worth a 40% off offer? Just "High on your list"?

Hey, as long as you can talk these guys into it and don't mind his opinion when he finds out your program, why not? $100 is a pretty good deal for you for a half day charter and is a lot cheaper than actually owning a boat. You can make your 15K last for years doing that.

I also got a kick out of the rich guy comment particularly when the boat was 30K. Funny.

You've got it figured out!

If I had ten folks like him wanting to test sail my boat at $100 a go then I would be very happy - even if none of them bought!

But if one of them did make a serious offer under contract (beyond the pre-discussed ballpark figure) that was accepted by me then I would be fairly certain the sale would happen (if I had fairly described and disclosed the boat and condition), and the sale would not later fail on pretend reasons generated by a Survey because the buyer simply decided he didn't like the boat once he had had a chance to have a good look at her - and that is a valid reason! Therefore IMO best to get that out of the way early doors....for benefit of both Vendor and Buyer, in cash and time.

[CR38]

Here's some examples of currently available offshore sailboats that could be purchased for less than $40K

Best Offshore Cruising Sailboats < $40K