Old Full / Modified Keel Are Not Cheap Anymore???

[lyl]

As long as, Cape Dorys are still at reasonable price, I think I can get over this new $ trend.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I don't think IPs and Babas in good shape were ever "cheap" were they?

Exactly, quality older cruisers in good condition and well equipped were never cheap. Ones in poorer shape with much deferred maintenance were always cheap, and still are.

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by Nord Sal

The money printing has been through the roof!


Currencies are worth less so prices are higher for just about everything.


I wouldn't expect any reduction in price going forward.

Inflation is the increase in money supply PLUS velocity (the rate the money changes hands). Covid really put a clamp on velocity now the brakes are off. The global bond market is still priced for low inflation. So I'm not seeing the increase in money supply having that big an impact on boat prices. I read it as a transient uptick in demand.

[goboatingnow]

2nd boats as a wasting asset have no intrinsic value , value is simply a function of demand. It’s nothing to do with inflation or money supply

A factor is the new prices to acquire a similar boat. If today a 40 footer is 400K and a 10 year one is 200k then in 5 years the inflation of the new boat pricing tends to drag up the 2nd boat. But that tapers with age.

As long as demand matches or outstrips supply , prices will rise as there is always someone with more money then you ( sorry )

If demand tapers off , prices will steady or fall

In relation to long keels , as virtually nobody is making them anymore , a small ( rather deluded ) niche group of potential buyers is chasing a smaller and smaller cohort of suitable product. In that way , it’s more like the classic car market.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

There are tens of millions of BabyBoomers retiring now and in the upcoming years. I expect the demand side for alternative living spaces to remain high for some time.

True, but I think this will produce the opposite effect. Few of these older folks will be jumping into cruising-level sailboats. Maybe some version of a powerboat, but I doubt the newly retiring crowd will turn to sail any more than current retiring crowds.

Plus, I think the retiring babyboomers who do own sailboats will be offloading these in favour of a nice trawler, or better still, a fancy RV or recreational property.

I still see all the price pressure heading down in the next year to three years.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

True, but I think this will produce the opposite effect. Few of these older folks will be jumping into cruising-level sailboats. Maybe some version of a powerboat, but I doubt the newly retiring crowd will turn to sail any more than current retiring crowds.

Plus, I think the retiring babyboomers who do own sailboats will be offloading these in favour of a nice trawler, or better still, a fancy RV or recreational property.

I still see all the price pressure heading down in the next year to three years.

Diesel at €1.60 to €1.90 a litre is a compelling reason to stay sailing !!!. I see no drift to powerboats.

The “COVID” effect will run for a few years certainly to 2023 or longer before the current crop of new boat owners will reevaluate their decisions. Falling prices tends to slow sales anyway as sellers withdraw from the market.

I don’t see demand peaking until next year at the earliest and then it will be some time before we see a buyers market , if at all

For the long keel heavy displacement dinosaurs ( ) the issue is different. Good 2nd hand models are limited because there is no new boat market of any volume. This means the supply is limited , and in such a situation prices of the remaining maintained boats will remain strong.

The second issue is maintenance will get more expensive and necessary while boat refits tend to be avoided resulting in the 2nd hand stock deteriorating. Boats are a wasting asset, so “ suck costs “ are just that !

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by lyl

lately, I've been seeing quite a few 40-50-year-old IPs and Babas that are being sold for around $100K. No more cheap old monohulls anymore? Party is over?

Your thread title also included Modified Full Keels. There are so many of them that to generalize is dangerous, but I certainly think the prices on boats of the mid 1980's vintage are very cheap for the value they give. I have not noticed any bump in asking prices for older boats in the 40' to 50' range.

IP is a tiny part of the market and it's not typical at all.

[lyl]

So can I come to the conclusion that IP and Baba sailboats are just exceptions? I hope a poor guy like me can still have realistic sailing dreams.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by lyl

So can I come to the conclusion that IP and Baba sailboats are just exceptions? I hope a poor guy like me can still have realistic sailing dreams.

Some possible deals turn up here sometimes:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...47098-173.html

[Lowcountry]

Babas are very well-built boats, and there just aren't that many of them. I believe that TaShing made less than 80 Baba 35's. The ones that are in good shape are always going to hold their value well.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

I have an aunt and uncle who considered a boat, however opted for a retirement village, designed to handle all maintenance while offering everything within walking and golf cart distance.

Personally I'd rather stick a needle in my eye lol but to each his own

Having gone through the boat buying experience in the last 6 months I can say there aren't a lot of good boats (at least in the mid-30's to 40' range and East Coast US) as they've mostly been snapped up.

However I did stay in touch with one of the brokers I worked with (Florida) and some of the COVID boat purchases are now being put back on the market. I know of one Bene 45 (?) that the Facebook exec sunk a bunch of refurb money into, lived on the hook in KW for a year, and is now having to go back into the office. I expect there's more coming.

[lyl]

Second thought. I guess there are still 30-40k capable sailboats in the market. I guess I shouldn't obsess about a few novelty sailboats.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by lyl

So can I come to the conclusion that IP and Baba sailboats are just exceptions? I hope a poor guy like me can still have realistic sailing dreams.

Yes, whoever turned you on to IP can be ignored if you want a fine seaworthy boat at a reasonable price. Just be prepared for any well used boat, even an old IP, to require lots of maintenance and usually one or more major repairs or replacements. There are some threads on CF about typical boat maintenance costs. Believe it!

[lyl]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Yes, whoever turned you on to IP can be ignored if you want a fine seaworthy boat at a reasonable price. Just be prepared for any well used boat, even an old IP, to require lots of maintenance and usually one or more major repairs or replacements. There are some threads on CF about typical boat maintenance costs. Believe it!

I believe it. That's why I thought ~100k was too much, considering the future repairs of several digit k's. I don't care about the type of the keel either to be honest - Just a well maintained capable sailboat.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Many will consider [a sailboat] however a lot will opt for an easier-to-operate vessel such as a trawler. An RV requires even less work, and retirement communities require almost no work.

Most retirees I know who have considered it are put off by the effort involved. Those who have been sailing for some time are not, however they are the minority of retirees.

Further to this, at the last Toronto International Boat Show before Covid (January 2020), the hottest boat sales were for Ranger Tugs: https://rangertugs.com/

Go figure,
LW77