Opinions on Electronics

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by tafoggycove

Looking to up grade all the electronics on the Gulfstar 50 I just purchased.
The boat has nothing(good thing) on it so we are starting from scratch.
Will be living aboard and cruising full time.
Looking for-radar,vhf,ssb and chartplotter.
I like the Icom 802 w/140 tuner
Icom 604 VHF
Possibly the Raymarine c120w
All input is appreciated
Thanks

Well, I would perhaps back-up a moment. By far the most important piece of equipment on a cruising boat is the self steering. I am presuming you will have an electronic autopilot and not a wind vane. So, I would start with the Autopilot.

By far the best sailing autopilots around today are B&G and NKE.

The compass is essential for good autopilot performance and other things (like a stable arpa on the radar). You want a good 2 or 3 axis rate gyro, with fast data rate and pitch and roll data. You want it to output native format (not NMEA) to the autopilot. B&G and NKE obviously have quite good compasses, but Maritron and fruno also have acceptable ones (depending on native autopilot format compatibility).

You then need an autopilot drive with less than 10 second hard over to hard over time, but that's really mechanical and not electronics, so lets skip the details for here.

I happen to like and use a lot the function of steer to wind angle, and for me I think it is then best to use the same instruments as the autopilot. Theoretically this is not necessary with NMEA 2000, but native format will increase the data rate and more importantly give you a single tech support person to talk to/fix problems (that's in my mind the worst aspect of the 'mix and match with NMEA200 bus' approach - you have multiple tech support people who will be pointing fingers at each other when something goes wrong). But you could get away with a simplier wind instrument system or none at all if you don't want to be able to steer by wind angle.

The next big item is the chart plotter/radar system. We have already talked about the compass options, you need a radar that can use that compass for stable N up and ARPA. The furuno digital radar is excellent and would be the obvious choice except you have to go with NAvnet 3d and it still has some serious charting problems (and a few other bugs) if you want to leave US waters. So for right now I would do the Simrad digital radar or the Furuno Navnet 2D - leaning toward which ever the compass you picked talks best to.

The icom stuff is good gear. I have not been happy with their after sales service (extremely arrogant), but fortunately their gear is usually so well built you don't need it.

[Paul Elliott]

Evans,

You say:

except you have to go with NAvnet 3d and it still has some serious charting problems (and a few other bugs) if you want to leave US waters.

What bugs are you referring to? I've got NN3D on VALIS, and with latest software updates I'm not aware of any actual bugs remaining. There are some details that I might prefer were done differently, but this will be the case with anyone's chartplotter.

The international chart catalog has been filling in, so unless you absolutely *need* an unavailable chartset right now, I would definitely consider NN3D over a previous generation chartplotter. Note that in some cases, while the vector charts are still missing, the raster charts are available.

[goboatingnow]

Given that there are no actual radar signals in the cable from the Garmin radar, its actually Ethernet data, there isnt a problem, My radar GMR404 and my Garmin network GPS run down together

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Evans,

You say:
What bugs are you referring to? I've got NN3D on VALIS, and with latest software updates I'm not aware of any actual bugs remaining. There are some details that I might prefer were done differently, but this will be the case with anyone's chartplotter.

The international chart catalog has been filling in, so unless you absolutely *need* an unavailable chartset right now, I would definitely consider NN3D over a previous generation chartplotter. Note that in some cases, while the vector charts are still missing, the raster charts are available.

Paul, That's a direct quote from Furuno tech support from about 3 months ago. They said they had most of the bugs gone but there were still about a half dozen identified and unresolved. I did not ask what they were.

I have just speced and purchased about $250k of electronics for a superyacht, including lots of furuno (their searchlight sonar and commercial grade 2117 radar) and we wanted a little broad band radar with plotter overlay and were going to use the furuno broad band but tech support asked us where the boat would be going and we said world-wide including the remote high latitudes and they said definitely not to buy 3d. Again, I did not ask for details.

We have a friend who installed 3D about 2 years ago (unfortunately with some encouragement from me as I have always loved the furuno reliability), and he has struggled ever since with it. So I have some burned fingers related to 3D. It may well be that 3D is now mostly ready for 'normal cruiser' usage, but we were asking for 'bulletproof extreme expedition performance' and Furuno Tech support as of 3 months ago was not yet ready to commit to that level of performance.

[goboatingnow]

While I have a Garmin instrument setup on my boat, I have done a lot of deliveries and sailing on boats that were predominantly Raymarine.

As an aside, I have always used Standard Horizon VHF's both fixed and handheld, fantastic gear, reliable, bomb-proof.

Both The C-series and E-Series ( I have not used the C-Wide outside a show), are quite good in my opinion, certainly better then Simrad. I personally found them easy to use, reliable and the systems integration is by far the best IMHO. ST60 instruments are very good and seem reliable, never had any fail. The Raymarine gyro stablised autopilots are excellant and I have done two Atlantic crossing with them without a failure. ( plus many other deliveries). The main failure area in Raymarine is the stupid friction fit seatalk plugs which always seem to work loose.

I would echo Evans view on Furuno 3D, I'd go with Furuno 2D as anyways I think all this 3D stuff is complete rubbish. ( not Naynet3D just the whole 3D concept). There is no doubt that Furuno radar is very good, but theres not much difference beteen most companies lesiure models in a 24" radome.

[beau]

I went Northstar,12 inch plotter/sounder/auto pilot/24 mile radar.
I am very happy with all units.
I purchased mine from WMJ marine in Carlsdad Califorina, and had them ship them to me in Australia. Much cheaper and excellent service.

Most power boats over here use Raymarine.

[Paul Elliott]

Evans,
OK, I can see your point. The NN3D system is still quite new and no doubt has some remainimg kinks. If you need "expedition-ready" gear, that is probably going to eliminate several of the newer products from consideration. For my admittedly less critical needs, NN3D has been doing an excellent job. If I needed charts right now that were unavailable for NN3D, I would obviously look elsewhere.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I would echo Evans view on Furuno 3D, I'd go with Furuno 2D as anyways I think all this 3D stuff is complete rubbish. ( not Naynet3D just the whole 3D concept).

The great thing about the Navnet3D line is that you don't have to turn on the 3D views. I typically don't, unless someone wants to see what it looks like. The NN3D line has many other very nice characteristics, including very fast chart redraw/zoom, both raster and vector charts (where available), lower power drain than the previous 2D line (at least according to the specs), good NMEA2000 support, etc.

My point is that, while there may be good reasons to avoid the NN3D line, the availability of the 3D presentation is not one of them.

By the way, I really need to spend more time with the 3D presentation. I usually have the chart in 2D, north-up, but that's because I'm most familiar with that display mode. 3D just might be one of those great options that are really useful once you get used to it. Or, it could be just another stupid gimmick...