Oyster 66 vs. Moody 66: Which would you trust for a short handed circumnavigation?

[TrentePieds]

Ramsay said: It’s a preference based on a bunch of requirements"

What, Ransay, ARE those requirements, precisely :-)?

TrentePieds

[Dockhead]

I don't know what his requirements are, but I think either of those boats would be an excellent choice for a short-handed circumnav. I just bought a similar boat with a friend of mine, which we plan to do a long Atlantic circuit in next year.


Both of those boats can easily be sailed by two people, and will be vastly more stable, safer and more comfortable than smaller boats. I don't recommend doing it with only two people -- with that much room, it's very comfortable having a normal crew. We will be 6 when we cross the Atlantic in January on a similar boat. These boats bunker a couple of tonnes of diesel fuel, have heavy duty generators, watermakers, etc., and spending a couple-few weeks on a long crossing is pure enjoyment.



My vote out of his choices would be the Oyster 66, but if he's looking at Moodys he should consider the Moody 64, which is almost identical to the 66 but is more plentiful on the market and, for some reason, cheaper.


Another boat in that class to consider is the Discovery 67, but only a few were made and I don't think any are available at the moment.

[Hermia II]

The Oyster has more bunks further aft, I would consider that an advantage. Otherwise they are quite similar. Have a look att the Amel 60, it is not bad at all.
Or you could get a beautiful proven Classic Swan 65, fix her to perfection and still have € 1 000 000:- in your pocket to play with.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Another boat in that class to consider is the Discovery 67, but only a few were made and I don't think any are available at the moment.

There is a 58 Discovery in Lymington with a rather nice saloon you can see out of:

https://www.berthoninternational.com...y-58-aqualuna/

[kiwin]

Advantages of the Deerfoot & Sundeer : easily driven therefore smaller sails & winches therefore easier to sail shorthanded. They are fast, which gives more choices with regard to weather & routeing. They are robust & build quality is very high. Two watertight bulkheads.

Disadvantages: Because they are long & narrow they are not large boats, so less accomodation. Also less righting moment and 1.8-2m draught means they are not as weatherly as some boats. In practice in the open ocean they will go upwind as well as anything , just a little lower & faster.

The Sundeer 64 if you can find one is the pick. It's longer, faster, with more accomodation than the others. Some sundeers have a lateral ballast shifting water tank">fresh water tank arrangement which increases righting moment. Unfortunately they don't come up for sale very often, and don't last long when they do.
I delivered a Deerfoot 61 down the east coast of the US decades ago now. Easy to sail, and easy to sail fast. Fast, comfortable, robust, easy to sail.....what's not to like.

[Sabor]

If your talking short handed on a 66 ft sailing vessel? There's no such thing as short handed on a boat that big. Either everything on the vessel has to electrical, like winches, etc... your going to be spending ample time fixing problems. A big boat doesn't always offer safety. I find a crew that is well rounded and with experience can safely handle moderate boats. The Pardeys proved that along with thousand of other folks...

[Bowdrie]

On a different tack;
I can't find a link, and I've forgotten his name,, but many years ago a sailor from France fixed-up an ex-racing aluminum 12 meter and sailed it single-handed from France to Tahiti.
He said it was a "Great sea boat".
Gotta hand it to him,,.
Probably had zero trouble going to weather.

[kiwin]

And yet the Sundeer 64, 60, 56 are designed specifically for a couple to sail alone for long distances......

[BearBoater]

Originally Posted by Sabor

If your talking short handed on a 66 ft sailing vessel? There's no such thing as short handed on a boat that big. Either everything on the vessel has to electrical, like winches, etc... your going to be spending ample time fixing problems. A big boat doesn't always offer safety. I find a crew that is well rounded and with experience can safely handle moderate boats. The Pardeys proved that along with thousand of other folks...

I love these comments when any topic of a boat north of 50' comes up. Saying that 2 people who are competent, experienced sailors can't safely handle a 66' boat is just nonsense and shows ignorance to these boats. Virtually every modern boat in this class is going to have hydro/electric winches, most will have in-mast furling mains and powered furling head sails. Add to that auto pilots and other not-so modern tech and it's really quite easy (again if you have the experience).

Now maintenance & upkeep is another story but also hugely dependent on upkeep and history. I've seen 20+ year old boats with complex systems run like champs and few year old boats with a mess of problems...

[kiwin]

Exactly. In practice the most difficult part, by far is docking the boat. And in a sheltered marina, with light/no wind and no current even that is not prohibitive. The real issue with passages with two crew is when one of them is out of action, which is why I always take three on a delivery. Essentially, I can sail the boat solo. So can most crew. What I can't do is stay awake 24/7. So the crew are there to keep watch and wake me up in the event of any drama. Modern sailing yachts are easy to sail with almost no crew. Just not easy to dock or pay for..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kiwin

Exactly. In practice the most difficult part, by far is docking the boat. And in a sheltered marina, with light/no wind and no current even that is not prohibitive. The real issue with passages with two crew is when one of them is out of action, which is why I always take three on a delivery. Essentially, I can sail the boat solo. So can most crew. What I can't do is stay awake 24/7. So the crew are there to keep watch and wake me up in the event of any drama. Modern sailing yachts are easy to sail with almost no crew. Just not easy to dock or pay for..

Indeed. The biggest challenge, by far, is paying for it all, including the maintenance.

But even short-handed docking, with the exception of med mooring, is not a big deal. Bigger boat is less subject to being thrown around by the wind. Boats of this size have powerful bow thrusters. I dock my 54' boat single handed with ease.

As to sailing the boat -- the bigger it is, the easier. These boats have all-powered furling and all-powered winches. They are much faster than smaller boats and don't need to be pressed as hard to keep up a good pace. Motion in a seaway is much easier.


My boat has an all furling rig, but furling is via furling lines. But these boats don't have furling lines; they have powered furlers, which are MUCH easier to deal with.

[s/v Jedi]

I have sailed every size boat up to our current Sundeer 64 which is by far the easiest to handle, even single handed.

[kiwin]

And really, it's about displacement rather than length, and to some extent the configuration of the boat. A 20 ton 65 footer with a fin keel, oversized spade rudder, a big engine with oversized prop is a whole different feel to a 45 ton boat with full keel with small engine, big rig etc. The latter will be slow to turn and stop, will not back up well and will be much more physical to sail. I don't think it's necessary or even advantageous to have mainsail furling until the sail is at least 1500ft² or even larger. Slab reefing and stack packs work well. I have sailed a couple of oysters and even the 74's are relatively easy even though they are a heavy boat.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kiwin

And really, it's about displacement rather than length, and to some extent the configuration of the boat. A 20 ton 65 footer with a fin keel, oversized spade rudder, a big engine with oversized prop is a whole different feel to a 45 ton boat with full keel with small engine, big rig etc. The latter will be slow to turn and stop, will not back up well and will be much more physical to sail. I don't think it's necessary or even advantageous to have mainsail furling until the sail is at least 1500ft² or even larger. Slab reefing and stack packs work well. I have sailed a couple of oysters and even the 74's are relatively easy even though they are a heavy boat.

You make a good point about the underbody configuration. A heavy full keeler is a real handful in harbour maneuvers.


The boats in question have moderate bulb keels and fairly high aspect and large rudders, so are pretty handy despite their size. They are mid weight at 30 to 35 tonnes; the Moody is lighter and faster.



As to furling mainsails -- I agree that they are not necessary or even desirable up to a certain size. I wouldn't want one on a boat under 50'. But my own mainsail is about 120m2 and that would already be a handful with slab reefing. Not necessarily a deal breaker, but I would not really want to single hand a boat with a slab reefing mainsail of that size, whereas with in-mast furling it's a piece of cake.


Note that the type of furling mechanism makes a huge difference in how handy in-mast furling is. A powered furler is much, much easier to use than in-mast furling operated by a furling line, like mine, and boats over 60' tend to all have powered furlers.

[Hoodsail]

Save 30 ft and go with the attached. Okay, okay, okay....add roller furling...