Pick of the production Yachts

[akprb]

Read "hunter, really" from our blog. At least check one out :-)

[UNCIVILIZED]

Handling a boat with a fin keel & a spade rudder tends to be easier than parking the car. Even moreso if you have a feathering, reversible pitch prop such as MaxProp. Which generates as much thrust astern as it does in forward, & switches direction in about 1.5 sec.

The catch (and there always is one) is that fin keels are less tolerant of groundings than are full keeled boats. So try & pick a boat which has stout keel floors, & not too much of a lever arm, keel wise. The latter often being easier to find than the former in boats of reasonable draft (about 6' or less).

[SoundWave]

Two more cents...hopefully not too biased.

We just went through this process last year, and we have similar cruising areas/goals.
Chose our Catalina 400 for comfort, existing systems and gear, actually sails pretty well, solid hull, blah blah blah.

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Extremely important, in my opinion. If possible, Meet the owner, in person!
Remember, you are not only buying a boat, you are buying the previous owner(s).

I've visited a selling owner (and I liked the boat a lot) and after meeting him, walked away.

Conversely, there are many sailors that, based on their character and their experience, I would buy any boat they were selling.
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Have fun!

[DaddaTony]

Thanks to you all, Robert Sailor, Civilized, RainDag, MarkJ, GordMay, danstanford, tetepare, suijin, Polux, Biymd, Cheechako for all your valuable input.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by DaddaTony

Hi All,

Just about to retire and buy a manageable boat for wife and I for cruising up and down the east coast primarily just day hopping so no extended off shore stuff. Of the Jeanneau's, Hanse, Bavaria's Beneteau's, Catalina's, Hunter's etc blah blah blah.

For a 36' - 39' what would be considered the better stronger built from 2000 builds to current date?

What's the preferences out there. Really only considering shaft drive also.

I think that the best first step to take is to look at the various models from each brand that fits your price criteria and narrow down the list by selecting the boats that excite your trousers the most

Then look at the practical things

That's how I did it

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

There's a difficulty in these threads.

You need to do your own research. You will only get peoples biased opinions here.

You say you have experience, so you are in a good position to go boat hunting


We can't do it for you

I very much agree with Mark. Ive been doing alot of research and I can a sure you that many forum opinions regarding boat construction is not always based on research, experience or facts.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Polux]

There is a common misconception that all mass production boats are all about the same.

There are ones that sail better than others and many times on the same brand there are goo boats and bad boats in what regards that. Normally they are all designed by major top designers so, for instance, saying they are better because they are designed by Farr, makes no sense, In fact the brand that has exclusively designs by Farr has one boat that is a pig to sail, while others are very good.

All mass produced boats have to comply with some minimum requirements and scantlings defined by RCD but there are many diferences, starting by the way they are built and the type of structure they have (I detailed both things on my blog), as well if they comply with the minimum or several times over it.

Those differences even if not made explicitly public are the easy part, the difficult part is to know how that affect boat quality in such important parameters as hull stiffness, strength and keel/rudder and structure support.

We know that some resins are better than others, some methods producing stronger boats and that is some help but that is far from enough.

Contrary to the car Industry where there are magazines powerful enough to make complete tests to the cars, for instance analyzing all parts after 100 000kms looking for wear signs and reporting malfuntions, on yachting there is a kind of silence conspiracy.

In 2009 was launched an international independent validation study supported by the ISAF, RYA and EBA, regarding the requirements that were later introduced on the RCD (2012) about keel and keel support scantlings, including resistance of keel structure to groundings at reduced speed.

They were able to test 9 boats from 5 different production shipyards, all class A with length between 8 and 20m.

The conclusion was that only one boat fully complied with the future rules and that it is good because it means we will have stronger boats, since the full compliance to those factors will be mandatory, but they also say that no basic rethinking is needed in the way the boats are made and that the non compliance is not excessive and as to do mostly with resistance to grounding. That means that there is nothing wrong with the way boats are built even if they need to be beefed up, at least to reach the standards RCD wants to impose.

But what is really interesting is to see the graphics regarding all points tested and not only see who passed and not but also what is the margin of failure and how over the minimum requirements are surpassed, and that happened a lot in several different vectors.

Looking at those graphics it becomes evident that the strength of the boats in what regards keel structure and attachments is far to be the same regarding all boats tested.

There are boats that did not pass one only vector (not for much) while passed others as much as 6.3x more, 9.1x times more, 5.3x times more.

Others did not so good particularly one the showed on one of the factors (out of 9) only 1/5 of the minimum strength needed (a 20m boat).

As I have been telling repetitively, strength has not do necessarily to do with weight and even if the boat that passed on all vectors was an heavy boat (10m - 8T) one that did not pass on 3 vectors was also a heavy one (19m-32T), while two light boats scored very well, one (8m-4T) missed only one vector but all the others were many times over the minimum, the other (11m-5T) missed two vectors by little and had on 5 of the other 8 remaining factor values over 2.1x more, having two with 6x more.

Would you like to know the brands of the boats? Well, me tooThey are not disclosed.

[VanIslandGuy]

We went through what you are going through last winter. It was to buy our second boat, we had owned a full keel Bayfield 32c for 10 years prior.

For manoeuvrability, a fin keel and a spade rudder can't be beat. I loved our old full keel boat out on the open water, but in close quarters with the wind up, and a long bowsprit, it was a challenge. Know doubt the experience made us better sailors, but I'm really enjoying having a boat now that steers predictably at low speeds in reverse.

For manufacturers...Loaded question. We've looked at them all and it really comes down to finding the right model more than the right manufacturer. Then it comes down to finding one that is well found, or discounted enough that after all the upgrades you want to do are completed you still think the price is fair.

More than on a house, everything wears out. Electronics go out of date. Still using a Blackberry, or Motorolla flip phone? Expect that electronics after 10 years will seem really dated compared to whats on the floor now. 20 years old, likely impossible to fix whenever they die. Pumps on boats will wear out and need to be replaced. Heads need to be rebuilt. Sails need to be replaced. The first 2-3 years with a second hand boat can be expensive as even small things in marine stores cost big dollars.

The early reply about a spreadsheet of priorities is bang on. I would add only the following. Try to avoid very rare, or one off designs as you will find that when the time comes to sell, it may be much more difficult. Also, don't buy the boat for your dream trip in 10 years time. Buy the boat for today's needs and sail the hell out of it. You may find that your priorities and wants change as you sail more, and learn more. Good luck.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by VanIslandGuy

We went through what you are going through last winter. It was to buy our second boat, we had owned a full keel Bayfield 32c for 10 years prior.

For manoeuvrability, a fin keel and a spade rudder can't be beat. I loved our old full keel boat out on the open water, but in close quarters with the wind up, and a long bowsprit, it was a challenge. Know doubt the experience made us better sailors, but I'm really enjoying having a boat now that steers predictably at low speeds in reverse.

For manufacturers...Loaded question. We've looked at them all and it really comes down to finding the right model more than the right manufacturer. Then it comes down to finding one that is well found, or discounted enough that after all the upgrades you want to do are completed you still think the price is fair.

More than on a house, everything wears out. Electronics go out of date. Still using a Blackberry, or Motorolla flip phone? Expect that electronics after 10 years will seem really dated compared to whats on the floor now. 20 years old, likely impossible to fix whenever they die. Pumps on boats will wear out and need to be replaced. Heads need to be rebuilt. Sails need to be replaced. The first 2-3 years with a second hand boat can be expensive as even small things in marine stores cost big dollars.

The early reply about a spreadsheet of priorities is bang on. I would add only the following. Try to avoid very rare, or one off designs as you will find that when the time comes to sell, it may be much more difficult. Also, don't buy the boat for your dream trip in 10 years time. Buy the boat for today's needs and sail the hell out of it. You may find that your priorities and wants change as you sail more, and learn more. Good luck.

Great post!!! and it is only the 2th

Let me tell you that the electronics are impossible to fix way before 20 years. I have Electronics from Simrad, a major brand, they are 9 years old and they are impossible to find or repair and the new models are not compatible with the "old" ones.

Last year I had to buy the display of the autopilot way above new price, I mean it was a new "old" display but the owner only wanted to sell it with the rest of the system, the electric engine and the computer. I ended up paying what he wanted since the alternative was a very expensive new autopilot. There was nothing else available on the market, new or used.

[Sandero]

I have no advice to offer ;-) ... the only boat I know intimately is the one I have purchased new in 1985 and sailed over 60,000 miles in all conditions. The newer boats I see on the water I don't get inside or often don't see them sailing. Since I am not in the market for a boat I don't look at them at boat shows, read about them in magazines or view them via a broker. When my buddy was looking for a new boat we visited several... a Contest 25, a Waquiez Pretorian (I recall) and the one he bought and is now up for sale an Omega 36. All were very nice boats. I prefer my own 85 Contest 36s. Today as I was cleaning up stuff at the yacht clue where I will winter her... several skippers came by and complimented the boat saying that she looked new! hahahaha That's funny! But she will look more bristol in the Spring. Boats are very personal... don't expect someone to tell you what's best for YOU.. You figure that out.

You may want to upgrade your nav electronics as mentioned above. My old gear works perfectly and I prefer simple to the complexity of integrated systems. I had a sailor on board for the sail to winter storage and I demonstrated how you don't need waypoints and all sorts of sophisticated interfaced electronics. I can extract more than enough data from my old B&G system. I don't bother much with waypoint libraries... a waste of time. I program them as needed (if needed). Heading and bearing line is all you need on a plotter... and a radar overlay is great. Keep it simple!

[silversailor]

Originally Posted by DaddaTony

Hi All,

Just about to retire and buy a manageable boat for wife and I for cruising up and down the east coast primarily just day hopping so no extended off shore stuff. Of the Jeanneau's, Hanse, Bavaria's Beneteau's, Catalina's, Hunter's etc blah blah blah.

For a 36' - 39' what would be considered the better stronger built from 2000 builds to current date?

What's the preferences out there. Really only considering shaft drive also.

I was just about to answer your question based on 11 years experience with what I consider to be the best of the production boats when I read your final sentence "Really only considering shaft drive also." My Hanse, along with all others, are saildrive as are many of the other production boats. If you are interested in a detailed breakdown of my Hanse 370e, based on considerable use, send me a PM.