Please advice on a boat in this part of my life

[gouralnik]

I have been on this forum for almost 10 years now – reading, researching, writing down thoughts. I read a lot of sailing books over the years and know quite a bit in theory. However, this is theory and one can research oneself to death on this forum without moving an inch forward in practice.

There seems to be a constant overflow of information and no reasonable filters in place. This will be a longer introduction to my questions, since I want to establish a fundamental basis on which one can build some reasonable advice.

This is very important to me since I’m asking for a direction in this particular part of my life (none of my friends are sailors). For the past 10 years I have steadily worked towards saving enough money to purchase a sailing boat and also to be able to work from a boat. I would appreciate advice from experienced people, preferably older than I am.

Basics: Located in Europe (Germany), 6’ ft (183 cm), 40 yr old, single, certified diver, fit, no injuries, sailed a few times and got basic RYA certifications (intro to sailing, competent crew, day skipper etc.). I’m quite confident in my capabilities of learning and acquiring sailing skills. I do get motion sickness but that does not deter me. I’m working quite a bit on motorbikes, so I guess I will be able to do some basic engine maintenance on the boat. I am not capable of rebuilding an engine from scratch. I have never worked on a hull, rigging, electronics, plumbing and have zero experience in that department. However, I’m capable of learning fast provided one shows me what / how needs to be done and what materials to use. I am aware of the sailing-“bibles” out there.

Plan

I want to purchase the boat in Europe (anywhere) and start sailing and acquiring skills in the Med (Europe) for the first few years, mainly doing coastal cruising or day / two-day passages when I’m confident enough. If the boat is located in the north (UK, Netherlands etc.), I am willing to sail it to the Med and pay an experienced skipper to teach me the ropes. It is likely that I will be alone around 40% of the time. If I like it, I will continue. If not, I will put the boat for sale (and take a financial loss) and move on land. A lot of books advising on boats are aimed at the USA market and this only has limited relevance for folks in Europe.

Limitations

Budget: Around 100,- K €/EUR for the boat (+/- 10%) and I can to spend around 2000,- € per month all in.

Work: In order to be able to work from a boat, I need to have a good internet access on average 3 times a week for about 5 hours. During European winter months (Nov – March), the plan is to get the boat into a marina or get it hauled out and live that time on land (not on a boat). While in marina / dry dock, I will have time to work on the boat and do the jobs that I can myself. However, I do not want to work on a boat months on end and do everything myself. I will hire “specialists” to do the work that I cannot do (and be ripped off – I know). I can continue spending around 2000 € per month on upkeep/maintenance.

Boat requirements

Since everyone is recommending a small mono-hull, I will go with that.

- I must be able to easily handle the boat single-handed without any headaches, even in bad weather: reefing, tacking, mooring, docking in marina and anchoring.
- Ideally a centre-cockpit and if not, a very well-protected and comfortable helm-position
- I want to be able to stand upright inside (headroom), have a comfortable bed where I can stretch out fully and generally have a spacious, non-claustrophobic feel inside. Here I would prefer a bit bigger / roomier / beamier than smaller.
- Generous deck area where 2 people can lie / sit / sail in comfort
- The boat must be able to accommodate two people in comfort (as live-aboard for around 5 months) and must be able to accommodate a maximum of 5 people for a maximum of 4 days.
- Comfortable sea-motion, “bomb”-proof, protected rudder, forgiving to potential mistakes, easy to fix: Function over Form.
- Due to the fact that I will be doing coastal cruising in the Med, I will need a very good dinghy with an outboard which can easily carry 4 people. I must be able to easily deploy the dinghy alone (dinghy is not in the boat budget of 100 €).

Dream: Outremer cat or Amel.

Question

What would YOU do and how would YOU proceed. Please include boat make/model and any other suggestions.

Thank you.

[DDabs]

Well, have you started to look at any boats at your local marinas?

[gouralnik]

Originally Posted by DDabs

Well, have you started to look at any boats at your local marinas?

I can only look on the internet. I'm not living in the vicinity of water

[DDabs]

one word: Autobahn

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by gouralnik

Question

What would YOU do and how would YOU proceed[?]

Thank you.

Biggest question I have is how attached you are to where you're presently living.

If I was 40, single, no strings, I wanted to get more into sailing, and my career could easily be moved around, I would move to the coast, to a known good sailing area, and start getting into it - join a yacht club, offer to crew races etc, and start looking at boats.

[SVHarmonie]

You say you dream of an Amel. Certainly a Super Maramu (or newer) is out of your price range, but the older, smaller, Amel Sharki is not. (~80K) A Maramu will push your budget for purchase (~110K), but is still in the ballpark.

Both are great boats, and a lot simpler, easier, and cheaper to care for than Amel's newer models, and they meet all your other criteria.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by gouralnik

I have been on this forum for almost 10 years now – reading, researching, writing down thoughts. I read a lot of sailing books over the years and know quite a bit in theory. However, this is theory and one can research oneself to death on this forum without moving an inch forward in practice.

There seems to be a constant overflow of information and no reasonable filters in place. This will be a longer introduction to my questions, since I want to establish a fundamental basis on which one can build some reasonable advice.

This is very important to me since I’m asking for a direction in this particular part of my life (none of my friends are sailors). For the past 10 years I have steadily worked towards saving enough money to purchase a sailing boat and also to be able to work from a boat. I would appreciate advice from experienced people, preferably older than I am.

Basics: Located in Europe (Germany), 6’ ft (183 cm), 40 yr old, single, certified diver, fit, no injuries, sailed a few times and got basic RYA certifications (intro to sailing, competent crew, day skipper etc.). I’m quite confident in my capabilities of learning and acquiring sailing skills. I do get motion sickness but that does not deter me. I’m working quite a bit on motorbikes, so I guess I will be able to do some basic engine maintenance on the boat. I am not capable of rebuilding an engine from scratch. I have never worked on a hull, rigging, electronics, plumbing and have zero experience in that department. However, I’m capable of learning fast provided one shows me what / how needs to be done and what materials to use. I am aware of the sailing-“bibles” out there.

Plan

I want to purchase the boat in Europe (anywhere) and start sailing and acquiring skills in the Med (Europe) for the first few years, mainly doing coastal cruising or day / two-day passages when I’m confident enough. If the boat is located in the north (UK, Netherlands etc.), I am willing to sail it to the Med and pay an experienced skipper to teach me the ropes. It is likely that I will be alone around 40% of the time. If I like it, I will continue. If not, I will put the boat for sale (and take a financial loss) and move on land. A lot of books advising on boats are aimed at the USA market and this only has limited relevance for folks in Europe.

Limitations

Budget: Around 100,- K €/EUR for the boat (+/- 10%) and I can to spend around 2000,- € per month all in.

Work: In order to be able to work from a boat, I need to have a good internet access on average 3 times a week for about 5 hours. During European winter months (Nov – March), the plan is to get the boat into a marina or get it hauled out and live that time on land (not on a boat). While in marina / dry dock, I will have time to work on the boat and do the jobs that I can myself. However, I do not want to work on a boat months on end and do everything myself. I will hire “specialists” to do the work that I cannot do (and be ripped off – I know). I can continue spending around 2000 € per month on upkeep/maintenance.

Boat requirements

Since everyone is recommending a small mono-hull, I will go with that.

- I must be able to easily handle the boat single-handed without any headaches, even in bad weather: reefing, tacking, mooring, docking in marina and anchoring.
- Ideally a centre-cockpit and if not, a very well-protected and comfortable helm-position
- I want to be able to stand upright inside (headroom), have a comfortable bed where I can stretch out fully and generally have a spacious, non-claustrophobic feel inside. Here I would prefer a bit bigger / roomier / beamier than smaller.
- Generous deck area where 2 people can lie / sit / sail in comfort
- The boat must be able to accommodate two people in comfort (as live-aboard for around 5 months) and must be able to accommodate a maximum of 5 people for a maximum of 4 days.
- Comfortable sea-motion, “bomb”-proof, protected rudder, forgiving to potential mistakes, easy to fix: Function over Form.
- Due to the fact that I will be doing coastal cruising in the Med, I will need a very good dinghy with an outboard which can easily carry 4 people. I must be able to easily deploy the dinghy alone (dinghy is not in the boat budget of 100 €).

Dream: Outremer cat or Amel.

Question

What would YOU do and how would YOU proceed. Please include boat make/model and any other suggestions.

Thank you.

Yes. the Outremer or Amel would both be very nice but I suspect outside your budget (mine too) I would avoid teak decks at all costs - unfortunately this omits most of the higher end monohulls. Europe has a lot of brands we don't see much here in the States but it sounds like the Moodys are a very popular choice as well as the Juneaus (we see a fair amount of those here) You may find some deals on cats with the virus issue happening though they'll mostly be excharter Lagoons or FP's, but which can take you anywhere as long as you know what you're doing. Caution: cats in marinas will kill your cruising budget in short order - particularly in the Med.

[jmpapon]

Gouralnik, I own a Westerly Corsair 36' from 1984. She is currently docked in Sicily in Marina di Ragusa waiting for our return. I am 70 years old and I am thinking about selling her. She would be an ideal boat for you: roomy, beamy (12'6") center cockpit with over 6' head clearance, a queen size birth in the aft cabin, comfortable saloon, etc. My wife and I sailed her across the atlantic in 2014 without problem and we have been cruising the med for about 6 months out of the year ever since.
She is easy to sail and a good fit for you.
If you are interested the price would be right and would leave you money to upgrade or refit her if you want although it is already very well equipped.
Send me an email if you are interested and I will send you more pictures and details.

[MicHughV]

this is about as difficult (and impossible) to do as trying to pick a girlfriend for you.

there are 1,000's of sailboat models out there.....

step away from the computer and visit some boatyards, marina's, etc..

Find the boat that appeals to YOU !!!....not someone else's opinion..

Then go....the perfect boat does not exist...find something YOU like !!

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

step away from the computer and visit some boatyards, marina's, etc..

Find the boat that appeals to YOU !!!....not someone else's opinion..

And at 6ft spend some time trying out the beds.

A modern centre cockpit ought to provide an island bed in a stern cabin.

[Robert E]

Thank you for a nice series of well-thought out considerations and questions. I don't have a suggestion about a particular make or model of boat. Your price point is likely a challenge. As always the cost will be dependent on the quality of upkeep and upgrades. Seldom with repairs and upgrades be less than you think or are quoted initially. I agree with you choice of a center cockpit, preferably with the ability to rig an inner fore-stay for a staysail. A priority for single handing is a self-tacking jib. Other priorities to consider are a reliable autopilot linked to a modern MFD with charts. A hard bottomed dingy, such as a Achilles HB-300FX with a 6 HP 4-stroke on davits makes single-handed deployment easiest and this rig will plane with two adults and gear. Best of luck with your search. Bob

[MicHughV]

I don't think it's possible to ascribe a list of parameters to define your boat anymore than trying to find the perfect girlfriend for you.

While you can you can list your preferred preferences, height, color of eyes, hair, etc, the "persona"of a woman cannot be ascertained until you are standing there in front of her.

So it is with a sailboat. Boats are typically referred to as "her" for good reason.

A sailboat is not an inanimate object. It is just as easy to " fall in love" with an old clunker as it would be a go-fast racer. Sailboats bob up and down at a dock, lean into the wind, etc...a sailboat can " talk to you" in that indescribable way that promises adventure, new lands, people, wind, waves, exotic islands, clouds, etc., but you have to be standing there to feel that.

A sailboat has a soul. It can be any little thing that can strike your eye. How do you ascribe the curve of a sheer line ? No, it can't be done in technical terms. When your heart skips a beat, you'll know when you've found "the one"

The rest is just fluff. Store bought items that anyone can purchase and things that you can fix, change, modify to suit your own needs.

I urge you to leave the computer, jump in your car, walk the docks, seawalls, marina's, boatyards, haul out yards, walk along the ocean, and take in all that your eye can see.
It can be just as easily be an old salt on some dock telling you..." hey, I know this boat that is at so and so place.....perfect for you"...

When there is a will, you'll find a way, the right boat at the right price will likely find you. It will have the right size bunk, the right everything on your list, but you won't find one from your computer, you need to get out there.

Good luck to you.

[Clivevon]

Before buying a boat I would strongly recommend you as a minimum to have passed RYA Day Skipper PRACTICAL or enough sea time crewing for others to have the equivalent skills.
That said, that Westerly Corsair 36 in Sicily might be a pretty good place to start, as long as you are happy to sail something that size single handed. Your boat accommodation requirements tend to rule out anything much smaller. (5 people on board, 2 people live aboard for 5 months, etc) while singlehanding anything bigger could be difficult (talking about coastal cruising here - lots of shortish journeys - not ocean racing for weeks at a time between ports).
If singlehanding I would strongly recommend a powered anchor windlass with remote control & decent (non-jamming)anchor chain stowage, reliable integral autopilot with remote control, modern nav electronics including AIS transponder & radar, roller reefing headsail & a mainsail with at least slides (not boltrope) & lazyjacks (fully battened with roller cars would be good).
I doubt you will get a fully protected rudder anywhere these days. The Contessa 36 has a full skeg but is not that big below - certainly not for 5 while in port.
Get out from behind your computer.... Spend your weekends looking at real boats. Good luck - go for it.

[Clivevon]

Island Packets do have a full keel & fully protected rudder. Not bad down below either.
Also the Rustler 36 - but that would be a bit cramped below for 5 - good for 2 though.

[gouralnik]

Thank you everyone for very informative replies. It is very interesting to read the different opinions you provide