Please critique my cat ketch thoughts

[alansmith]

I sniffed around the Freedoms for quite awhile. There was one in Holland that I came so close to flying to for a deposit and survey.

Some of the Freedoms have centerboards. Which makes an interesting situation for shallow water sailors. When you have unstayed masts I am not sure what they do for spinnaker or screecher type sails. Also one thing that is evident... when you have unstayed masts they are quite robust... thick... which I wonder ... would it not disturb the air flow ? I have no experience so I am just curious about that.

When I was doing my due diligence on these Freedoms there were some warnings about checking out the masts. This is going back 5 years ago now. But they said it was an area that you had to pay close attention to on Freedoms. These were the east coast boats... not foreign boats.

[zstine]

For more info on Cat ketch and free standing rigs, you may be interested in reading this...
https://www.ericwsponberg.com/

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Are you sure, for a monohull that looks like close reaching to me... [emoji3]

Happy to be corrected though.

Yes, not quite close hauled but she'd pinch up higher than that if I wanted her to. Wont sail as well close to the wind as my current boat BUT she did fine. The little self tracking jib had a great blade shape that helped.

[mvmojo]

Have a friend who single-handed a Freedom 29 cat ketch for 20+ years. He had no problems single handing her.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Yes, not quite close hauled but she'd pinch up higher than that if I wanted her to. Wont sail as well close to the wind as my current boat BUT she did fine. The little self tracking jib had a great blade shape that helped.

The big ole Swan used to go hard upwind in the 20s (low 20s racing, high 20s cruising), so 45 in a mono is definitely reaching for me

And, I could see the mainsail hanging out over the water Dale, that's not 'going to wind'...

[Paul Howard]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

I would be wary of any brokers ad which repeatedly refers to this offering as a “Nonsuch Nereus 40”. When they deceive in their advertising just imagine what will go on behind closed doors.

The Nereus was designed by Mark Ellis, the same man that designed the Nonsuch series that are so popular, so not surprising the advert refers to the Nonsuch. All the Nonsuch boats were built at yards in Ontario, Canada, where Mark Ellis is based, though these were built offshore.
I did a circumnavigation of the world on an unstayed rig, though mine was with a modern junk rig sail, using a mast built to the same size and specs as a Nonsuch 30, though a bit shorter. That boat did a second circumnavigation of the world under another owner, still with the same unstayed mast.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by mvmojo

Have a friend who single-handed a Freedom 29 cat ketch for 20+ years. He had no problems single handing her.

I also had a friend that lived on the 28 freedom ketch.

Crossed the Atlantic a couple of times in it.

What he liked is he could dump the sails lash the helm and shed just heave to.

[canman]

After owning 5 sail boats. 1947 33 Knutson Pilot, Cal 20 , Abeking and Rasmusen. 34, Morgan 35 k/cb. Our Freedom 39 Pilothouse Schooner is by far and away the best boat we’ve owned now for 19 years. Last 3 as livaboards. Getting rid of all that wire makes so much sense. We don’t see a lot of free standing masts becoise sailors tend to be very traditional Can’t tell your how often we get comments about the mast breaking. (36 years no problems). I always respond that airplanes lost their wires 100 years ago and we don’t see wings falling off much do we? The cored hull and deck is superb for noise and cold insulation in colder climates and makes our AC work less too on warmer days. Only two Haliyard winches and no sheets or headsails to tack. With the pilot house I can go below and stay warm and dry with great visability too. And it’s an amazing performer even to windward. As the flexible masts depower the sails in the gusts .and give time to correct course or trim. On and on amazing boats.

[Lazerbrains]

There was a beautiful Herreshoff Cat - Ketch local to me for several years. They went out sailing weekly. One day they lost the mizzen mast during a daysail. They sold the boat soon after with only the mainmast left on it for a deep discount. I did not know them, but a friend of mine did and said the cause was judged to be simply fatigue of the mast. I suppose these masts flex more when unstayed? Something to think about if looking at an older boat. Also, I am fairly sure this one had wooden masts, not CF, FWIW

[Lazerbrains]

Also, here is another Herreshoff that has lost it's main mast: https://www.shoppok.com/sandiego/a,2...ce=clazoutfeed

[canman]

As for spinnakers we fly two when racing but the rig has plenty of sail area for cruising. As for lost masts, consider how many hundreds of failure points on wired systems could and would let you down. Compare that to original freestanding rigs that are now 30-40 years old, as many freestanding rigs are. . Can you imagine going out in heavy weather with a 30-40 year old wire rig?

[mvmojo]

Originally Posted by canman

As for spinnakers we fly two when racing but the rig has plenty of sail area for cruising. As for lost masts, consider how many hundreds of failure points on wired systems could and would let you down. Compare that to original freestanding rigs that are now 30-40 years old, as many freestanding rigs are. . Can you imagine going out in heavy weather with a 30-40 year old wire rig?

Can you imagine looking out a modern airplane window and seeing the wings supported by wires?! Free standing rigs are essentially maintenance free other than running rigging. Many riggers recommend replacement of the wire and fittings every 7 to 15 years depending on how and where the boat is used.

[Sparx]

As for spinnaker, they are a bit redundant for cruising a well rigged unstayed cat ketch. Downwind wing and wing presents massive sail area. Let the main sprit run forward of the mast on the windward side and the boat screams at 150 TWA with air flowing backwards across the main sail having swapped leaches for luffs. Come up a little more and get both sprits on the same tack and the boat is deep reaching with lots of exposed sail area. The boat rolls along merrily like this for days on end.

Now I do have a large fisherman than hoists from top of the mizzen to foot of the main. This is a reaching sail excellent for light wind and a bit more, but is cumbersome to tack.

These cat ketches are powerful and forgiving. Above is one example of differences compared to sloops.

[tangara]

I own a Cat Ketch 37 made of alluminum made by Kington Alluminium Yacht in Ontario.Canada this boat was design by Yves Marie Tanton from Newport R.I.
I purchase the boat in 1999 and are very please with the simplicity of sailing with this boat unfortunately we must change our plans and the boat is for sale.

If you need more info please contact me.tangara.jeanclaude@gmail.com

/Users/jean-claude/Desktop/IMG_0829.jpeg

[Montanan]

Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFle9YZCzLw