progressive sail upgrades for a westsail 42 on a budget

[theller]

I recently became a proud owner of a westsail 42 cutter rig. She's a chonker and the sails are past their life. Its got the big 140 Genny that was kept without a sun cover and is currently throwing UV damaged threads. I also carelessly put a little spreader hole in it.

The main is in better shape having spend most of its time under the main cover. Still old though.

I've also got a Yankee thats in good shape with relatively little use on it.

I want to get under sail and cruising Puget Sound this summer. I've got about an extra $1000 at the moment that I'm contemplating spending on a used sail.

What do you all think would be the best path forward. Start with the main and then the genoa? I'll be able to order new sails for the next season, so what ever I end up with will end up being backup sails.

Maybe a used main and a used reacher or asym spin would get me under power?

Can I get decent power under a yankee and the Main?

Anyone with feedback from the PNW would be appreciated. Im Moored in Bremerton.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, theller,

Here's something to do before you decide. Take a #2 wooden pencil and see if you can drive it through the genoa. If you can, the fabric is toast. Good fabric won't let the pencil through. [This tip is c/o Carol Hasse, a well known sailmaker in your area.]
Some sails are worth re-stitching and patching. Especially if the hole split a seam, so the failure was due to UV exposed thread, and not the fabric failing. So, one option you didn't mention is re-stitching. If the fabric passes the pencil test, I would consider taking it to a sailmaker and enquiring the cost of a re-stitch, and also ask them the question of why, if they try to sell you a new sail. This won't cost much except the travel costs. Don't let them sell you a new sail, yet.

If the fabric fails the pencil test, then I would replace it with a used headsail. Then start saving up for a new main. If you dare, do the pencil test on the main. If the fabric is even as heavy as 9 oz., the pencil will go through, and the sail is ready to be a rain shelter or something.

If both are toast, I would do the main sail first, because your boat will still be able to sail, although under canvassed, and you will be able to get to know her a bit, and you'll really appreciate it when you get a better 140.

I'm hoping the protected main will see you through at least one season. In the mean time, start saving up for new sails.

Your stay sail, seldom used, will probably see you through many seasons.

Good luck with it.

Ann

[theller]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hi, theller,

Here's something to do before you decide. Take a #2 wooden pencil and see if you can drive it through the genoa.

Tell me about this #2 pencil. We talking fresh out of the grade school sharpener or been sitting in a tool box for 10 years? Or, perhaps not sharpened?

[Perfusser]

Hi Theller,
I had similiar issues when bought my boat. I can appreciate my expenditures may be smaller than yours- I have a 26' yacht.

I had a good look at my sails- Main baggy and undersized, number one blown out and undersized, number 3- under sized with loosening hanks, - yankee headsail- the best sail on the boat, but smaller than the number 3, Spinnaker Old and didn't fit again too small.
I assessed the most common wind conditions that I sailed in, including how and when I would be sailing. I recognised that I would be either cruising with my wife in protected waters (Lake Macquarie, Australia) or racing on a Saturday afternoon- winds typically 12-16 knots.

I had a chat with some friends as well as a recommended sail maker (Ian Short).
I also consulted with Shwhombo- (She Who Must Be Obeyed- AKA Rear Admiral and Chief Budget Officer).
Subsequently I splurged on a new Pentax Mainsail and a Pentax No 2 headsail ($5200).
I was also offered a pretty good light weight spinnaker with Braces ($300)- a bit short it it was in great condition.

I also checked out Used Sail Exchange very often. Some of the deals available are extraordinary. I negotiated with Shwhombo she could get shares in a horse if I could get my number 2 1/2 headsail.
So I bought a 2nd hand brand new Pentex Number 2(1/2) headsail ($1400) - which is probably at the maximum size possible to fit within the fore triangle. From USE.
This year I bought a new Number 3 Pentex blade headsail ($2400)
I keep checking out for spinnakers on U.S.E.- there is a brand new 2nd hand light weight symmetrical spinnaker available that would fit perfectly ($1500), but my current one is adequate.
But I still want a chicken chute- something that will fly shy, and can be used in winds over 10 knots. I suspect this will be another trip to Ian Short ($2700).
I will also get a number 1 headsail- oneday.

When sailing with the wife I use the yankee cut headsail and new main- She can see under the yankee, and I still make reasonable headway. The new sails from Ian Short have been excellent.

I hope this has been of use to you, cheers

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by theller

Tell me about this #2 pencil. We talking fresh out of the grade school sharpener or been sitting in a tool box for 10 years? Or, perhaps not sharpened?

When I did this on a friend's sail, the pencil was sharp. On good fabric, you'll break the point. On sun-rotted, the whole pencil works its way through. You may have to push a little, but not strong-man push, it won't be needed.

Ann

[Jim Cate]

I would keep the main for the time being and look for a used genoa. The main reason is that buying used headsails is pretty easy, for the fit isn't critical. A mainsail, on the other hand, must fit pretty well perfectly or its shape will be poor, even if the sail is in good nick.

Have a look at Bacon in Annapolis. They have a huge inventory of sails and are quite reliable folks to deal with. Their descriptions and ratings are quite conservative, and you can return a sail if it really fails to satisfy (though s hipping can make this unattractive).

Do realize that the exact size of a genoa isn't very important... ie whether it is a 125 or a 140 won't matter much in terms of improving your light air sailing, so be somewhat flexible in your search. For your area, some sort of light air sail is pretty important... as you doubtless know!

Good luck,

Jim

[theller]

When it comes to a main sail cut, whats the accuracy needed for a used sail?

I think I may have found a main thats very nearly perfect.
Sail Luff Leech foot
main 43.7 46.7 16.1 condition: Good, price $800
orig 43.5 46.5 16.5

UK, norlam, 7 oz., tri-radial, single stitching, 3 step stitching, covered rope luff, foot rope, full battens, battens not included, cunningham, leech line, draft stripe(s), numbers, insignia, 7/8" luff int slides, 7 batten pockets, reef point 4'4", reef point 9'6", reef point 14'8", 378 sq. ft., luff batten receptacles removed

Sail Luff Leech foot
Genoa 48.3 50.6 31.3 condition: good, price $450
orig 50 46.91 32.5

BORDEAUX, dacron, 7.5 oz., cross cut, triple stitching, foam luff, leech line, #5 luff tape, blue starboard sun cover, 730 sq. ft., deck sweeper, suncover needs replaced

I would be pretty happy to have a solid main and genoa for $1250

[donradcliffe]

Try Minney's for used sails on the west coast.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Perfusser

Hi Theller,
I had similiar issues when bought my boat. I can appreciate my expenditures may be smaller than yours- I have a 26' yacht.

I had a good look at my sails- Main baggy and undersized, number one blown out and undersized, number 3- under sized with loosening hanks, - yankee headsail- the best sail on the boat, but smaller than the number 3, Spinnaker Old and didn't fit again too small.
I assessed the most common wind conditions that I sailed in, including how and when I would be sailing. I recognised that I would be either cruising with my wife in protected waters (Lake Macquarie, Australia) or racing on a Saturday afternoon- winds typically 12-16 knots.

I had a chat with some friends as well as a recommended sail maker (Ian Short).
I also consulted with Shwhombo- (She Who Must Be Obeyed- AKA Rear Admiral and Chief Budget Officer).
Subsequently I splurged on a new Pentax Mainsail and a Pentax No 2 headsail ($5200).
I was also offered a pretty good light weight spinnaker with Braces ($300)- a bit short it it was in great condition.

I also checked out Used Sail Exchange very often. Some of the deals available are extraordinary. I negotiated with Shwhombo she could get shares in a horse if I could get my number 2 1/2 headsail.
So I bought a 2nd hand brand new Pentex Number 2(1/2) headsail ($1400) - which is probably at the maximum size possible to fit within the fore triangle. From USE.
This year I bought a new Number 3 Pentex blade headsail ($2400)
I keep checking out for spinnakers on U.S.E.- there is a brand new 2nd hand light weight symmetrical spinnaker available that would fit perfectly ($1500), but my current one is adequate.
But I still want a chicken chute- something that will fly shy, and can be used in winds over 10 knots. I suspect this will be another trip to Ian Short ($2700).
I will also get a number 1 headsail- oneday.

When sailing with the wife I use the yankee cut headsail and new main- She can see under the yankee, and I still make reasonable headway. The new sails from Ian Short have been excellent.

I hope this has been of use to you, cheers

Shwhombo - I love it

[theller]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Try Minney's for used sails on the west coast.

Unfortunately, Minney's has been having a hard time shipping sails while remodelling and has basically shut down.

Fortunately, the two sails I found above seem to be a pretty good solution. Wondering what people think about those main dimensions? It looks just about right.

[fred4936]

I do not know what the typical sailing conditions are where you are, but around here a 140 would be too big most of the time. Maybe what you have is a good combination. I would reserve judgement on sail combinations until you have sailed it a while. Keep an eye open for used sails. The Westsail is heavy, so maybe a 140 works for it, but sailing is easier if a smaller headsail gets the boat moving OK.

[roverhi]

SWMBO is the standard abbreviation.

Haunt Craig's List, Ebay, Bacons, etc. Larger used sails regularly show up especially headsails and off wind sails. Picked up an almost new light weight 140% genoa and a couple of spinnakers each under $500 for my 35' boat. Headsails don't have to be an exact fit just not too long in the luff.

For summer sailing in the PNW you are going to need light air sails like a 150% genoa, reacher/drifter, Asymmetrical Spinnaker or even Symetrical Spinnaker if you are brave. Without them you own a motor boat.

A slightly too long luff for a main can be adjusted using a Cunningham for luff tension. Don't know how the boom gooseneck is attached to the mast. If it's a slider, that 6" longer luff may work out of the box. If the boom is fixed and drilled and tapped in place you might be able to drill and tap new holes and lower the boom. Have to be careful that the boom won't mess with a dodger or other fixed obstructions or movable ones like your head.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

......
......Have a look at Bacon in Annapolis. They have a huge inventory of sails and are quite reliable folks to deal with. Their descriptions and ratings are quite conservative, and you can return a sail if it really fails to satisfy (though s hipping can make this unattractive)..........

I strongly agree with the option for Bacon & Associates in Annapolis. I've purchased from them in the past (cruising chute and mizzen stay sail) and I was very pleased with the sails and the price.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by theller

UK, norlam, 7 oz., tri-radial, single stitching, 3 step stitching, covered rope luff, foot rope, full battens, battens not included, cunningham, leech line, draft stripe(s), numbers, insignia, 7/8" luff int slides, 7 batten pockets, reef point 4'4", reef point 9'6", reef point 14'8", 378 sq. ft., luff batten receptacles removed

I thought Norlam from North Sails was a laminate sail and a fairly basic one at that. If so you need to know how old it is because they don't last like a dacron sail cloth. Possibly the reason its for sale, there isn't much life left in it.

Pete

[Tayana42]

theller, your boat is a cutter. You say the yankee is little used. If the staysail is also good and the main is serviceable you may not need the genoa. Try it and you may find it is much handier than tacking a big genoa. It should balance well and drive adequately in anything but the lightest of wind.