Researching Blue Water Boats

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Lady Captin

Hello to all, we are totally new to sailing and are in the beginning stages of researching for our Bluewater boat. On the list at the moment is the Pearson 365/367 and I would like to know if they have a keel stepped Mast or Deck stepped. It funny how its not always easy to google the answers you seek.

Does anyone know where we could find mast info on any boats to know for sure Deck step/ Keel stepped. As we have discovered the post in the living are could be a compression post only and not for sure a keel stepped mast.

Any Info on these boats would be helpful. We hear some say that the Pearson 365/367 are not Bluewater boats, while other say yes. As we are new to all this, we are a little more fearful of being caught in the perfect storm, too many sailing movies, lol.

We are considering Cape Dory/ Pearson/ Bayfield/ Westsail, in 32-36 range at this point. We are afraid to go bigger and be boat poor, and as a result over whelm my limited pension. This is just to name the major contenders at this point ( Early in our search). it seems the more we know, the less we know and more confusion we face, lol

Simple. Look at pics of the interior. The mast or compression post will show and you will either see a mast shape or it will be a compression post. Another way to tell is when you are looking at the pics below look for any attachments to the deck. If there are it is a keel stepped mast. Also if you look at pics of base of the mast. If wires are going through the deck it is a deck stepped mast. If there are no wires it is a keel stepped mast.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Lady Captin

Thank you for you genuine thoughtful response. It is people like you that make the sailing community the best it can be. Although...NOT ! quite as helpful as Goboatingnow, letting me know that all saltwater is Blue! That is a game changer for me.

May have to rethink my plans after learning all Saltwater is Blue! Have to now consider boats that can only sail in blue water ! I know this it not listed on sailboatdata.com., so back to the drawing board.

All joking aside , I have been on sailboatdata.com, but still trying to learn all the abbreviations and terms listed. Thank you for what you pointed out!

Boats are designed and built to certain standards and categorized as such.

Category A — Ocean – This is the category with the toughest standards and covers vessels 40’ and over designed to be self-sufficient for extended voyages. It is defined as the “category of boats considered suitable for seas of up to 23 feet (7 meters) significant wave height and winds of Beaufort Force 9 (41-47 knots) or less, but excluding abnormal conditions such as hurricanes.”

Category B — Offshore – These boats are designed to go offshore with the ability to handle winds up to gale force 8 of 40 knots, and seas up to 13 feet (3.96 meters).


This chart shows a boat’s displacement and the Angle of Vanishing Stability (AVS) as indicated on its Gz Curve.

The difference between Category A & B is shown in the above graphic, where Mass is tons and AVS is the Angle of Vanishing Stability when the boat goes upside down.

Category A boats need to be to the right of and above the blue line and a Category B boats to the right and above the red line.

Category C — Inshore – These boats may venture away from the protected harbors, but within striking distance of home… operating in coastal waters or large bays and lakes with winds up to 27 knots with and significant seas 8 feet (2.44 meters) high.

Category D — Inland or sheltered coastal waters – These are your typical day boats, operating in protected harbors, small lakes and rivers with winds to Force 4 (up to 16 knots) and significant wave heights to 4 feet (1.22 meters).

[Lady Captin]

So I am curious, so what I’m gathering from this information about dogs, is that we should either give up our sailing dream, because we own a large dog, Or we should give away a family member, so that we can go sailing. In all honesty I appreciate the feedback on dogs and realize it will be a huge challenge.

Perhaps in time we will realize that you are correct, but there is a famous saying that I like to repeat often in my life !

“ We must go through, what we go through , to be where we need to be in our journey in life” . So many amazing things in life would not have been accomplished if people had just been listening to those who told them all the reasons why they should not try to accomplish the task at hand.

I have no illusions, and if we could turn back time and know then , what we know now, we would not choose to have our Rottweiler puppy . However we do and she is a member of our family. When we started out RVing and selling her house to full-time RV, we were told repeatedly that we would lose our minds in a 28 foot trailer with two very large dogs.

However we discovered for us personally this was not the case. Just as we were informed our 28 foot fifth wheel was too small to live in full time, and we needed a bigger trailer, if we were to live full-time in our RV.

I just want point out, that we are not delusional but rather realistic. The reality is we have a two-year-old Rottweiler that we love very dearly and is a huge part of our life, we are not without compassion or concern, and for this reason we would not set sail with our eight year old bull mastiff, as he would be unable to deal with the stress of sailing due to his breed and nature.

For better or worse , our little Rottweiler loves the water more than we could have dreamed . We will make the best of what we have , for us we feel strongly , in life it is always better to have attempted something and failed , than to have never attempted it at all, because of fear or negative opinions.

Not that they don’t have some value , we just won’t let them sway us in the final decisions, thank you for all that is shared regardless.

[KarenSJ]

Recommend investigating Cascade 36. Some were factory built and some were owner built. If you can find a good one, it will serve you well.

[nofacey]

Boat’s you’re looking at are quite conservative, and will do fine offshore…not the fastest, but having confidence in your boat has HUGE value!

Staying within your boat budget is smart too

One thing you’ll need is a dog-overboard plan….getting a 105 lb beast back out of the water will be a challenge. I’d start with a dog jacket that has a very strong handle on top…

[Aeronaught]

A keel stepped mast takes a different curve under compression than one that is stepped on deck, strength and ability to stay in column favors a spar held in two points at its base, keel and deck in this case. If you want to go all the way around the world, by all means get the Westsail 32....they are not known for going to weather <grin>. My own path to a cruizing boat was a 24' sloop that the boatyard guy said 'don't take this boat out of the bay'. I next got a 28' boat that was built for San Francisco Bay....it had a head so I could get a date, but the bunks were narrow singles. Then I met a guy who was building a Herreshoff Marco Polo (3-mast 55' designed for shorthanded passages) and spent the next 5 years building mine. Lived aboard and sailed about 50K aboard Valkyrie before moving ashore....had some epic times, never forgotten.
-Veteran '66-68

[Lady Captin]

Yes so very true, we will work long and hard to provide the safest environment for our Rottweiler as possible, while sailing offshore. We will spare no expense and be doing the utmost to provide her the best comfort and safety possible while sailing with us.

[Rainbow48]

Hollywood has yet to produce a movie that even comes close to accurately showing what a storm at sea in a small boat is like. Been in several while short or single handing transoceanic. Before you put your money down on a boat, I’d suggest that you read as many books as you can, written by people who have done what you want to do, while at the same time finding a way to get as much coastal and offshore sailing in as you can.

[scareygary]

Originally Posted by Rainbow48

Hollywood has yet to produce a movie that even comes close to accurately showing what a storm at sea in a small boat is like. Been in several while short or single handing transoceanic. Before you put your money down on a boat, I’d suggest that you read as many books as you can, written by people who have done what you want to do, while at the same time finding a way to get as much coastal and offshore sailing in as you can.

When you start reading those books, I highly recommend "Sailing a Serious Ocean" by John Kretschmer. In it, you'll get his list of recommended boats, too, and you may be surprised that many are brands you haven't heard of. I have a Swedish boat, and it's better built than many, many American 'popular' brands, many of which were designed to look great and roomy at a boat show, but not pitching about at sea.
Don't be fooled. "Popular" often means that lots of them were sold, but that might mean 'cheaply' constructed. Ask me how I know..... Good luck, and keep an open mind....

[womensetsail]

Hi Lady Captain,

As two women sailing Co-Captains, we highly recommend the Women's Sailing Convention held every year in Southern California. We attended a few years ago when when we started sailing. This convention has workshops on everything you need to know...from diesel engine maintenance, climbing the mast, preparing for passagemaking, electrical know-how, and even safety for women sailing alone in foreign countries. (Should you bring a gun?, etc.). The organizer of this event, Gail Hine, has been hosting the convention since 1975. And all the women teaching are extremely experienced, some having circumnavigating the World. These women know their sh*t!

We also highly recommend getting your Captain's License ASAP, to learn navigation and the Rules of the Road. We believe every boater should at least know these basic things, sail or not.

Here's the link to the Women's Sailing Convention.Next workshop in April 2022. Check out some of their workshops! And good luck in finding the right boat!



https://www.sailingconventionforwomen.com/



Nancy & Deanne
Women Set Sail, LLC

[scareygary]

Regarding women's sailing.. Here in the Portland, OR area, we have a VERY active group called Oregon Women Sailing Ass'n. They have courses taught by women, own a few boats they let ladies use or even race! I have used my boats for YEARS in their 'Wednesday Night Sailing' program, where let ladies take out my boat to practice what they're learning. I do a little 'coaching', if asked, but mostly the ladies do everything themselves. Quite a program, and there are hundreds of women involved. I usually have women sailing with me on my 'somewhat casual' race crew. Many have gone on to purchase their own boats, or crew with the bigger, faster folk. Highly recommended, if you're in this area!

[scareygary]

Originally Posted by KarenSJ

Recommend investigating Cascade 36. Some were factory built and some were owner built. If you can find a good one, it will serve you well.

These boats aren't real big inside for a 36' er, but they are bulletproof and surprisingly fast! Be wary of the 'owner finished' ones, perhaps....but there are several who sail locally and they impress me a good deal....

[womensetsail]

ScareyGary:


The one thing missing at the Women's Sailing Convention in California was MEN! ... No men to 'advise' anyone on anything. This group is completely made up of women who own and captain their own boats. No men needed! Just had to say that.....:-)

[night mission]

Seeing you've already gotten a lot of advice (some even pertaining to your original request), I'm probably just going to summarize and add my take based my on personal experience.

I didn't get the intent of your blue water mission, long term live aboard or filling a dream with a once in a life desire to do a long blue water trip. It makes a difference, in that what you consider acceptable for a one, two or even three week voyage quite possiblly would not cut it to live on for an extended period.

I crewed for a friend with a desire to blue water trans Atlantic, (we are on the east coast). His boat is now (permeantly?) based in Spain. The boat, a Catalina 37 would not be considered a blue water boat by most experts on this forum. We sailed with a crew of 4 with various experience, none with prior blue water experience. Without getting too deep in the details, the trip was very well planed. The captain took several courses available to increase his knowledge. For the trip, we had on shore weather and Gulf Stream planning helping us. Timing for departure was delayed for weather and overall the trip was pretty uneventful, not totally, but well within the capability of crew and machine.

In my estimation, besides all things anyone here has or would suggest about quality and condition of the boat, Size, in this case bigger, would have made a big difference in the quality of life issues pertaining to this voyage. I think anything less than 40 feet should be discarded unless the beam is excessive, in which case other issues could preclude it (ie: ride and comfort is rough seas).

I know people cruise with less crew than we had but I would be very leary of running a 24hr non stop event for weeks on end short handed. My opinion, many do it, but all have to do so while leaving the helm basically unattended for hours for rest. No getting around it. Risk mainly to you and boat (big ocean your best friend but big fast boats your biggest threat). Yes there is technology to help keep you out of harms way, but you'd be surprised, on major shipping routes, how many ships are out there, all going 2x, 3x, or 4x faster than you.

As said by others invest in yourself, what ever boat you buy, learn really learn, as in work on the major systems, primarily the engine. Be able to change pumps and clear clogs. Have backups for drinking water and broken gear. Good luck!!

[VickiW]

Sitting here in Georgetown Bahamas after sailing up and down the east coast this summer. It’s not too common to see the blue water boats that internet searches make you believe you need. The boats we have seen cruising are predominantly production boats with newer, larger layouts. Speed speed at sea, light wind performance, and comfort at anchor where you spend most of your time definitely counts. Weather predictions are pretty accurate these days so you should not expect to find yourself in the perfect storm and even if you do the production sailboats can take a beating. We worked with sailing totem to help us guide our boat and I highly recommend their services!