Researching Blue Water Boats

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by VickiW

…. Weather predictions are pretty accurate these days so you should not expect to find yourself in the perfect storm and even if you do the production sailboats can take a beating. ….

I’m not sure the crew of Cheeky Rafiki would agree with that assessment of production boats’ sturdiness.

[Djarrka]

Another thing, unfortunately, to think about is insurance. It has changed so much over the last couple of decades. Companies are getting extremely picky about what boats they will insure. Like, value only over 100k, age newer than 2000. That sort of thing. Maybe you can live with liability only. And, you might need that if you ever want to be in a marina or hauled out.

Don’t loose the faith. Sailing to interesting places is exciting and the most fun you may ever have!

[thataway41]

We have sailed about 70,000 miles with Labrador retrievers aboard, including a N. Atlantic crossing where we had winds in excess of 65 knots for 3 days and seas to match for 5 days...The Lab was 10 years old when we started the voyage, and was a large dog at 90#. We trained her to use Astroturf on the foredeck (Pilothouse vessel, with flush deck forward of the pilot house.) The dog not only had a life vest with a sturdy safety handle, but also had a harness, with two tethers, the same as we had, and she would be clipped onto jack lines when in heavy weather. She learned to climb ladders/stairs.

On our second set of voyages we had two 60 lb Labs. That boat was a Cal 46--also a pilot house design. The dogs used the aft deck on this boat; again with harness and jacklines. Our initial voyages were to the PNW and AK. Later thru the Panama Canal and up to Florida.

Perhaps you might consider starting in BC--buying a boat on the West Coast. Then sailing the waters in the protected waters, but challenging tides and currents of the PNW. Plenty of time to get some heavy weather experience if you so wish. This is also some of the best cruising in the World.

I am going to comment more on boats in a PM to the OP.

[roythomas]

If the mast is keel stepped you can usually see it in the interior photos.

[boatman61]

Or the mast boot on the cabin top.

[drdoyle]

In a smaller length boat that needs living space you will be better served by a heavier displacement to length ratio. I prefer thicker hull fiberglass dimensions, no less than 3/4 inch layup. Below 36 feet 5/8th inch layup in the thin sections. If you are a serious sailer you probably want more of a performance boat, poits closer to the wind and keeps a good speed. But a cruiser is a heavier boat, a bit of a fat bottomed gal. I like an enclosed wheel house. A Fischer would be nice.

[roythomas]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Or the mast boot on the cabin top.

Very good point. I just figured a mast was an easier identify below decks than a mast boot above deck.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Djarrka

Another thing, unfortunately, to think about is insurance. It has changed so much over the last couple of decades. Companies are getting extremely picky about what boats they will insure. Like, value only over 100k, age newer than 2000. That sort of thing. Maybe you can live with liability only. And, you might need that if you ever want to be in a marina or hauled out.

Don’t loose the faith. Sailing to interesting places is exciting and the most fun you may ever have!

I would not agree with that in general , the main issue is that short handed deep offshore work is now expensive to insure, largely because historically many ocean cruisers simply didn't bother with insurance at all. The rise of the private marina has had the biggest effect on insurance demands in my opinion.

in my experience , a skipper with adequate crew and with the appropriate tickets and experience will not have too much difficulty insuring a well appointed older boat or one well less then 100K. Insurance has become more expensive largely due to litigation costs rather then anything to do with the boats themselves

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by Lady Captin

H

Bayfield/ Westsail, in 32-36 range at this point. We are afraid to go bigger and be boat poor, and as a result over whelm my limited pension. This is just to name the major contenders at this point ( Early in our search). it seems the more we know, the less we know and more confusion we face, lol

Of course I will offend some but you should stay away from those boats. They are sailboats in name only. They are hard pressed to get out of their own way while under sail and can barely move to weather on a good day. They make your Tanzer look like a full on America's Cup racer.

What does that mean? Well say you wanted to go to some island 40 miles from where you were but directly up wind. This is called going to weather.

Unless you power all the way you will likely not make it in either of those boats and if you do it will take forever. They will not sail at all in light winds and once the winds get up they are unable to overcome the wind and waves. You could end up farther away than you started. This has been known to happen.

People will say these are solid safe boats. Well maybe but how safe is the boat if it can barely make it to port? Heavy and slow is not safe. It is just heavy and slow and you are out in the crap for longer

Under power they are a disaster in wind and waves because they are long or full keel boats and the tiny propeller is in a equally tiny aperture and can not see the water very well.

As for the Pearson I can not really say. I am of the opinion right or wrong that you really can't get into a blue water boat below 38 ft.

I know someone who cruised the Caribbean for years on an C&C Landfall 38. Good boat that can sail and is a reasonable size. The extra 3-4 ft is nothing. I have sailed on everything from a 16 footer to a 50+ and they are all basically the same. Same controls, same requirements as your Tanzer. Forces are a bigger on bigger boats and that is why they made winches.

As to the perfect storm... don't worry about it. It rarely happens and you just shorten sail by throwing in a reef. Do it early.

If you think I am exaggerating on the Westsail and Bayfield get a ride for a day or 2 in different conditions before you put your money down.

[goboatingnow]

and bear in mind, most of the time its light airs performance that you need, not heavy airs survivability

[Rod Headlee]

Get a Mason 43 cutter, built like a brick poophouse. Get one with the teak deck gone. I only have 8k miles on ours but it rides like a cadilliac, stores 200g water, hates marinas does well in heavy weather. Very similar to the Cape Dory 36 but larger, which is a good choice IMHO. I knew a guy that sailed to the Caribbean from Charleston every season. in one.

We put about 25k miles on a 1979 Catlina 38. Hot little boat, rough ride, carried 44 g water with the tank we added. Sailed to weather really well, tolerated bad weather.

By the way if your full keeler has a cut away fore foot it will handle better (tack) than one that doesn't.

[cruisin123]

Originally Posted by Lady Captin

Hello to all, we are totally new to sailing and are in the beginning stages of researching for our Bluewater boat. On the list at the moment is the Pearson 365/367 and I would like to know if they have a keel stepped Mast or Deck stepped. It funny how its not always easy to google the answers you seek.

Does anyone know where we could find mast info on any boats to know for sure Deck step/ Keel stepped. As we have discovered the post in the living are could be a compression post only and not for sure a keel stepped mast.

Any Info on these boats would be helpful. We hear some say that the Pearson 365/367 are not Bluewater boats, while other say yes. As we are new to all this, we are a little more fearful of being caught in the perfect storm, too many sailing movies, lol.

We are considering Cape Dory/ Pearson/ Bayfield/ Westsail, in 32-36 range at this point. We are afraid to go bigger and be boat poor, and as a result over whelm my limited pension. This is just to name the major contenders at this point ( Early in our search). it seems the more we know, the less we know and more confusion we face, lol

I would suggest spending more time studying the route and weather patterns that frequent the area you are planning to travel rather than worrying about slight differences in boat construction. Boats have circumnavigated with both mast systems you mentioned.

You can find a thousands of boats under $5k sun bleaching in marinas that are capable of taking you where you want if you are a competent sailor. Likewise an unprepared sailor will find a way to sink the most “indestructible” boat.

Just a professional captains 2 senzzz.

[Fatbob]

I don't know if anyone turned you on to the websites: https://sailboatdata.com and https://bluewaterboats.org. I spent countless hours pouring over information on both sites.

Another great source of info is the book set, Practical Boat Buying. Again, I spent hours reading thru the various used boat makes/models. These two books are a great resource.

Some advice I received that seemed to make sense and still holds true, buy the smallest boat you can stomach...costs go up with each addition foot. Additionally, don't buy a cheap boat, you can't afford it. All boats are a compromise to a degree. After about 2-years of reading, researching, watching YouTube, etc...., we decided on a 34 - 37 footer and I liked the Pacific Seacraft or Cabo Rico. In the end, I stumble on a recently (completely) refurbished Southern Cross 35 and purchased it. I've been very pleased with our decision.

[Lady Captin]

Can I jump in and ask how much for the southern cross 35 in the photos? Some peoples idea of affordable boats , are not in our wheel house in the least . Thank you for your great advice .

[Fatbob]

Originally Posted by Lady Captin

Can I jump in and ask how much for the southern cross 35 in the photos? Some peoples idea of affordable boats , are not in our wheel house in the least . Thank you for your great advice .

I sent you a PM.