Riding Sail Max Wind Speed

[Muaddib1116]

My boat tends to ride around at anchor or on a mooring. I'm thinking of getting a FinDelta #3 riding sail, and I'm curious about how extreme of conditions it should be used in.

My thinking is that there is no maximum. Using it will help reduce loads on your ground tackle, and if conditions get so extreme that it rips the riding sail apart, then you were going to be in more trouble not using it in the first place.

Also, I'm not really sure how they're sized. It seems like you would want to go with the smallest riding sail that is still effective, right?

[markxengineerin]

Following. Also curious if anyone has used one of these, how is it in one of the dreaded anchorages where wind and current vary and one dominates, then the other, leading to constant "sailing"? I imagine this would help, up to a certain level of current, but real world reports would be great

[noelex 77]

The riding sail should be bullet proof if well designed. It is only a very small sail area.

However, it adds extra drag so the contribution is not always positive.

As this is very boat specific, the sensible thing is to test the option. This can be done with a home made sail constructed from scraps before committing to the more expensive commercial alternative.

In most cases I think opting for a slightly larger anchor is a simpler and cheaper option for achieving greater ultimate holding power.

[Muaddib1116]

I've upgraded my anchor already. My boat came from the factory with a 66lb claw, a previous owner added a 77lb Spade. I've adopted the Dashew philosophy and upgraded to a 121lb Rocna Vulcan.

In regards to overcoming the holding power of the anchor, I guess that's sort of what I'm wondering, is there a point where the extra drag overcomes the advantages of reduced yawing? Surely, the drag of the boat staying inline with a riding sail is less than the drag of the boat when side on to the wind?

The downside I see is if the sail tears and then you have increased drag with no benefit. But it depends on the wind speeds that would damage a riding sail. If it's the type of thing that will rip at 50kts, then it's not worth putting up for that sort of storm, but if it tears at 90kts, then you should probably use it all the time, because at 90kts, you're boats probably pretty boned anyways.

[noelex 77]

With a 121 lb anchor, personally I would not contemplate the added complication and trouble of a riding sail.

KISS.

[Muaddib1116]

So just use it for comfort in reasonable weather?

[markxengineerin]

I have had plenty of situations where the anchor is fine- holding- but uncomfortable/unsettling feeling of sailing back and forth all night would be nice to avoid. That and to minimize chafe on the snubber/ abuse on the steering gear, etc seem like good reasons to consider a riding sail.

[Muaddib1116]

Agreed.

Thank you Noelex, I certainly value your opinion, but hopefully others will chime in with their experiences/thoughts as well.

I'll probably shoot an email to the FinDelta guys and get their take on sizing and use limitations.

[noelex 77]

A riding sail can sometimes add comfort at anchor, but this is not universally true.

Many anchorages have variable wind directions, as the wind funnels down the topography. A riding sail will cause the boat the swing and more importantly heel with these gusts, detracting rather than adding to the comfort. The added noise of a stalled sail can also be an issue, as well as concerns about exceeding the maximum wind strength of the sail.

These factors are very variable depending on the boat design and cruising area. Some experimentation is sensible.

Enjoying your time at anchor revolves around security and confidence that the boat is safe . In most cases this is best and simply achieved with a large new generation anchor.

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

A riding sail can sometimes add comfort at anchor, but this is not universally true.

Many anchorages have variable wind directions, as the wind funnels down the topography. A riding sail will cause the boat the swing and more importantly heel with these gusts, detracting rather than adding to the comfort. The added noise of a stalled sail can also be an issue, as well as concerns about exceeding the maximum wind strength of the sail.

These factors are very variable depending on the boat design and cruising area. Some experimentation is sensible.

These are interesting points. Are you talking about a situation where there are sudden gusts from directions other than the prevailing wind? or sudden direction changes of the prevailing wind? Regardless, it seems like it is not a useless tool to have in the anchoring device quiver.

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Enjoying your time at anchor revolves around security and confidence that the boat is safe . In most cases this is best and simply achieved with a large new generation anchor.

This is certainly true. I am a relatively novice anchorer, and while it's possible that I would be just fine with one of the anchors that came with my boat, I definitely feel better knowing I have pretty much the biggest new gen anchor I can fit on my boat, even if it's a placebo effect.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

These are interesting points. Are you talking about a situation where there are sudden gusts from directions other than the prevailing wind? .

Yes.

These conditions are not uncommon. A riding sail will encourage the the boat to swing more rapidly to align with the direction of the gust rather than maintaining alignment with the average direction of the prevailing wind. This is not always helpful. The riding sail can also increase the heel angle and adds more drag.

I am not implying that a riding sail is always counterproductive, but there are times when this is true and many more times when the value is marginal. Given the cost and effort of a riding sail I think majority of cruising boats (sloops) would be better diverting the energy and money involved into improving their primary anchoring gear, but if you have the chance to try one it is worthwhile to see how it works on your particular vessel.

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I definitely feel better knowing I have pretty much the biggest new gen anchor I can fit on my boat, even if it's a placebo effect.

It is great you have fitted some good anchoring gear but don’t dismiss it as just a placebo effect. It is surprising how many boats drag in even moderately strong conditions.

[rslifkin]

In the shifting winds scenario, I think whether a riding sail is better or worse will depend on the boat. If the boat slowly clocks around without it, it probably won't help. But if the boat tends to blow the bow off and go flying sideways until it yanks the rode tight and snaps the bow around into the wind, a riding sail might smooth things out by getting the boat to point up sooner.

[Orion Jim]

A riding sail can be a benefit or a detriment. In a tight anchorage you can find yourself lying to the wind rather than the current as your neighbors are. It’s not a panacea. It is also helpful to anchor among boats with a similar underwater hull profile so your swinging momentum is similar. A larger underwater profile tends to be effected much more by current than a fin keel with high topsides. If the anchorage is large enough it doesn’t matter but boats tend to be rather tight in the best anchorages during the prime season.

[Scubaseas]

Try tying a 5 gallon pail to your rode about 8 feet from the surface if you have sailing at anchor issues. If it works get a heavy canvas drogue made up to replace it. Dropping the dodger on my old boat would noticeably reduce yawing in winds above about 30 knots. I had a riding sail on that boat also but rarely used it. The only times it was really helpful was in a crowded mooring field when next to other boats that like to waltz when the wind gets up. Leading you anchor pennant/s further aft could also help yawing at anchor. Really depends on your boat. At some point drag forces will outweigh any benefit of anti yawing. A riding sail did work fine for me but again there can be better ways to limit yawing without putting up more drag. My old boat tended to stop yawing in winds above 35 knots so I'd not use the riding sail in very heavy winds. It came out in crowded anchorages or mooring fields in winds above 18 to 20 but below 35 kts. But that was just my boat and the windage it has. YMMV.

[Lodesman]

I'm sure someone will chime in with the correct term here (I can't remember it, if there is one), but you could try to offset the angle of the rode by running a long snubber to a cleat on one side of the boat, midship or further aft. You haul in on that to set the bow to the wind, which tends to decrease sailing about.

Edit: Ocean Navigator calls it a winch bridle, and while it's main purpose is to manage an uncomfortable swell, it is equally effective at setting your boat's natural wind-balance point in the direction of the anchor.