Sabre 402 or Beneteau 461

[waterwesty]

Which of these boats do you prefer? some distance club racing, cruising, PNW to Hawaii. Go!

[Rolled Up]

Sabre is higher quality boat imo.

I'd personally avoid any boat that charter fleets bought a lot of.

[TheOffice]

Volvo or Ford? I'll take the Volvo, but it has much less interior room.

[intervivos]

What does the crew look like, and are maitnance/slip costs a concern? Six feet is a big jump in size. 34 vs 39 foot waterline....I would take the 5 feet of additional water line, but would prefer in a xx3 series beneteau i.e 473 or the 423.

[sogin]

Originally Posted by waterwesty

Which of these boats do you prefer? some distance club racing, cruising, PNW to Hawaii. Go!

We traded a Beneteau 411 for a Sabre 426mkII which in my mind is a descendant of a Sabre 402. The 411 was ten years old when we traded and today the Sabre is 12 years old - There is no comparison in the performance and integrity of the Sabre versus the 411 which after ten years was in need of significant refitting. The construction of the basic hulls are very different and every component on the Sabres our performs the 411. We very much enjoyed owning the 411 but it is not in the same league as the 426. We think it sad that Sabre has stopped manufacturing sail boats. I would not hesitate to recommend a Sabre over a Beneteau.

[Knotical]

Sabre..and I am not biased

[Wandering1]

Beneteaus are called 'Bendy toys' for a reason

[Jim Greer]

I own a 461, 2 cabin 2 head version. My only complaint is the displacement to length ratio. I would like to see it 5,000 lbs heavier. I have had it off shore, sailed in what some might call, questionable conditions. With a reefed gennie and main, it stood up to 40 knots with gust to 50 and 12 to 15 ft seas. Like any boat, do a thorough survey. The beneteau is faster and roomier, but lighter.

Sabre 402
S.A. / Displ.: 18.72
Bal. / Displ.: 38.83
Disp: / Len: 213.54
Comfort Ratio: 25.74
Capsize Screening Formula: 2.01
S#: 2.74
Hull Speed: 7.81 kn
Pounds/Inch Immersion: 1,619.40 pounds/inch

Beneteau 461
S.A. / Displ.: 17.59
Bal. / Displ.: 35.79
Disp: / Len: 153.22
Comfort Ratio: 23.30
Capsize Screening Formula: 2.03
S#: 3.40
Hull Speed: 8.41 kn
Pounds/Inch Immersion: 1,962.39 pounds/inch

[MicHughV]

Can't speak for the Sabre 402, but can for the Beneteau 432.
While, like any boat, it has it's faults and foibles, sailing performance is not one of them.
I think it's relative light weight is what gives it, it's performance edge.
That, and it has a planing type hull, ie, very flat bottom, and LWL is near as dammit as LOA.
Personally, I think it's a great sailing boat, and from what I've heard, it's big brother, the 461, is as well.
The Sabre is likely a better fit and finish, as the Beneteau is basically glommed together.
But a few other noticeable difference, ie, the open transom concept. At one time, I thought this was the kiss of death, but have come to love it.
At anchor it is docile as a lamb.
Etc, and so on. While this is my perspective, you'd need to spend some time on either boat to see which suits you best.

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Can't speak for the Sabre 402, but can for the Beneteau 432.
While, like any boat, it has it's faults and foibles, sailing performance is not one of them.
I think it's relative light weight is what gives it, it's performance edge.
That, and it has a planing type hull, ie, very flat bottom, and LWL is near as dammit as LOA.
Personally, I think it's a great sailing boat, and from what I've heard, it's big brother, the 461, is as well.
The Sabre is likely a better fit and finish, as the Beneteau is basically glommed together.
But a few other noticeable difference, ie, the open transom concept. At one time, I thought this was the kiss of death, but have come to love it.
At anchor it is docile as a lamb.
Etc, and so on. While this is my perspective, you'd need to spend some time on either boat to see which suits you best.

It depends what you intend to do with your boat. Liveaboard cruising on lightweight flat bottom boats is not ideal. On our bluewater 44 ft boat we have 2 sets of dive gear, two bikes, kite surfing gear, wingfoiling gear, a 12 ft hard dinghy, 15 hp engine, two sewing machines, etc. Our boat can carry a lot of weight associated with liveaboard. Flat bottom lightweight boats don't do this well and any performance advantage soon disappears if you load it up similarly.
Flat bottom modern hulls roll at anchor if there is any swell. We have the least rolly boat in any anchorage, always.
If you intend to race around the cans, day sail, spend your summer holidays on her and mainly hop from marina to marina then the Beneteau would be a fine choice

[MicHughV]

My Bennie is my third boat, and it has quite a bit of gear and paraphernalia on board and I can't say I've noticed any performance issues.
You forgot to add generator, solar panels, extra anchors, etc. all of which are on the boat.

While it is relatively speaking, flat bottomed, it also has a very long LWL for it's length.
It certainly cruises at a good clip compared to my previous boats, which were more the heavy displacement types.

I've put quite a bit of sea miles on the boat, and as far as I'm concerned, it has performed with aplomb, so not sure where you derive your opinion from.

I've spent 35 some years living aboard, and have 10's of 1,000's of sea miles under my belt, so have some perspective on the matter.

[Wandering1]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

My Bennie is my third boat, and it has quite a bit of gear and paraphernalia on board and I can't say I've noticed any performance issues.
You forgot to add generator, solar panels, extra anchors, etc. all of which are on the boat.

While it is relatively speaking, flat bottomed, it also has a very long LWL for it's length.
It certainly cruises at a good clip compared to my previous boats, which were more the heavy displacement types.

I've put quite a bit of sea miles on the boat, and as far as I'm concerned, it has performed with aplomb, so not sure where you derive your opinion from.

I've spent 35 some years living aboard, and have 10's of 1,000's of sea miles under my belt, so have some perspective on the matter.

I am glad your boat works for you. I don't know how you use it or how many ocean crossing you have done in it. I have 40,000nm in my present boat with 4 Atlantic crossings in this one. I have a couple of crossing in my previous boat. I also have some prespective
Edit: I forgot to add we had a diesel generator 920w of solar and two spare anchors, Jordan series drogue as well

[rslifkin]

Keep in mind, boats benefit greatly from scaling. Just about any boat design works better as you make it larger. So a design that has significant shortcomings can often be mitigated at least partially by just making the boat bigger. Bigger boats almost always ride better, so a hull shape that may produce awful motion in a 30 footer might be acceptable in a 45 footer. Weight carrying capacity also goes up dramatically with size, typically faster than the amount of stuff to carry increases.

[MicHughV]

If there was one perfect boat, we'd all be sailing on it...that is to say, if we could afford it.

Fortunately, there are gazillions of boats available, every make and model one could hope for. Something for everybody.

People have sailed across the Atlantic and round the world in all manner of craft, from small to large and everything in between.

I don't think the Sabre 402 is a bad boat, nor do I think the Bennie 461 is, as well as the many others of a similar size.

I think it's a case of "find the boat you like (and can afford) , and like the boat you find"

[Cheechako]

I haven't looked at a Sabre in 20 years, but back then looking closely at the 40 footer, I would say the construction work was far better than Beneteau. But the hull was cored, which I wont do.