Sailboat Refit Costs: Seacocks: How Many and How Much?

[minaret]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

I'm sorry I'm older than dirt and honestly cannot remember the difference.

If I have a properly backed and flanged thruhull, then install a ball valve with a 90 degree handle that opens and closes, is that proper seacock?

No, a flanged adapter does not make it a seacock.


Seacock & Thru-Hull Primer/Pre Information Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

[SV DestinyAscen]

Originally Posted by minaret

No, a flanged adapter does not make it a seacock.


Seacock & Thru-Hull Primer/Pre Information Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

I've seen seacocks called shakewell? Flanged thruhull that includes a hose attachment point, and a screw open cap where the cone valve body attaches and can be removed completely to be serviced or insert a plug if there's unexpected damage.

Seems to not fit the very narrow definition of a seacock but seems safer.

[SailingFan]

Well, I am a relative novice with a relatively small vessel, a '78 Hunter 27. I have two three valved through-hulls, two for the head (1 in and 1 out), and then another single valve for the raw water intake for the Yanmar SB-8 inboard. There are a few other plastic through-hulls, but they are all above the waterline.

I had to replace the one for the raw cooling water because it was completely blocked internally with some sort of calcium-like material and the handle for it could rotate with no movement of the internal valve body. I may or may not look farther into rebuilding the original, but replaced it with a brass ball valve (possibly a mistake, we shall see). That valve was all but impossible to reach, as it is under the galley cabinet drawer stack, and after both drawers are removed my arm BARELY fits into the opening of one of those two drawers, and you even have to pull the factory drawer support rails to reach this thing and the kingston valve handle. It is a pain and something I will probably be addressing in my current haul-out via an enlarged drawer set for the larger openings that can be then used.

The valves for the head are next on my list, though, and are currently frozen in the closed position. I put some PB Blaster on them inside and out in the hope of breaking them free, but have not attempted to turn them again since due to my hospital admission. I am planning to head out there tomorrow and have a check on those. They are relatively easy to see, but difficult to turn due to the location within the cabinetry behind the head, and the fact that a spanner is not very useful in the range of turning motion needed to open or close the valves (the bulkhead gets in the way of the wrench handle).

My wife is calling me, so more info soon!

[Smokeys Kitchen]

1. Your Boat Model, LOA, Year Built

Pacific Seacraft 40 (LOA ~ 43) - 1998

2. How many seacocks are on your boat?
While every boat may have some seacock additions or deletions, the point here is to identify HOW MANY are typical for your model of boat.

Seacocks - 7 - Flanged, Groco bronze, seacocks
Note: all these are below the waterline

Watermaker inlet
Galley sink drain
Galley sink inlet - inlet also serves salt water wash down on deck
Engine cooling inlet
Head sink drain
Head inlet
Head black water outlet

Ball valves - 7 - non-flanged, Groco ball valves
Note: all these are above the waterline

Watermaker outlet
Side deck drains (2)
Cockpit drains (2)
Shower sump pump drain
Holding tank vent line


3. This thread assumes you have replaced your seacocks (all of them). When did replace them (e.g. Soon after purchasing the boat? Before a long voyage?) and Why? (Because of pre purchase survey? Peace of mind? To sell the boat?)

Have lubricated them all but replaced none

4. Did you do the seacock replacement yourself or use a professional labor?

N/A

5. What was the Total Cost for Replacing ALL of your Seacocks?

N/A

5A. How much was spent in Parts and what type did you choose (e.g bronze or Marelon or brand and model)?

N/A

5B. How much was spent in Labor or how many hours did it take you to do it yourself?

About 1 day while boat was on the hard in a yard to lube seacocks

6. Are any of your seacocks very hard to reach or "impossible" to reach quickly?

Generally in ok places to reach. Under a sette or inside a cupboard or lazarette. Engine seacock is under a dedicated floor hatch. Cockpit drain ball valves are a little more difficult; in the back of cockpit lockers.

IF so, where or which ones? Please describe if some are in very difficult to access places in the boat and what their function is too. Which would be the worst or hardest to access in an emergency (boat taking on water)?

7. Have any of your seacocks ever failed? If so, how? Did you find severe corrosion or stuck seacocks or inoperable seacocks? Please describe.

No failures; some were difficult to move until lubricated (boat had set for quite a while with no use)

8. What would you do differently in the future? (If you paid someone or DIY, would you do that the same way in the future? Or choose a different method or product?)[/QUOTE]

The Grocos seem to have worked well and given good life; would probably choose those again.

[bletso]

1979 Globe 38

6 below WL of which two have been removed, another will be removed before launch. One, a 2 inch had the below fitting and the attached clamp broke on touching it.
SW intake, Head intake, sink and head discharge. One of those will disappear as I installed a composting head. That will leave me three below WL

6 above the WL 3 cockpit drains, galley sink, two bilge pumps and one unused.

One other hole below WL is the speed transducer

[pcmm]

1978 Morgan out Island ketch

There WERE 21 seacocks, all in various states of decay! some ins some strange places

Now there are just 6 seacocks all groco flanged ball valve seacocks
4 in the engine room (2 cockpit drains, 1 engine intake, 1 aft head sink)
1 Galley sink
1 forward head sink

all are readliy accessible now

I replaced all of them last spring/summer
cost was $5-600 in parts including the G10 board for the backing plates

I replaced them all myself, its not hard to do. and you'll likely do a better job than most yard labour!

The other 14 thruhulls have all been filled in with epoxy and 1708 biaxial glass! I hate leaks!!

[puffcard]

I have a 1979, Tartan 37.

4 seacocks, Replaced all two years ago, about $200 material and did it myself. Greatest tip I found with thru-hulls. Don't mix brass pipe nibbles with bronze valve and use the pink EXTRA thick Teflon tape for the assembly. That might be the best item to have in a tool box. I've seen several thru valves fail, the most common is a frozen valve, broke handle or a bronze nibble breaking off after zinc dezincification

[SeeMonstrEd]

1. 1996 Jeanneau International 50


2. 0 true seacocks, 30+ thru-hulls, 26 below the waterline with ball valves. 5 above the waterline with ball valves. 4 heads, main engine, genset, 2 AC units, fridge drain, 4 bilge pumps, and cockpit drains.

3. Replaced 10, all that looked corroded or were too stiff to operate. Preparing for the run from Jacksonville FL to Annapolis MD.

4. Used a professional, cost about $3,000, done with other jobs on the hard. Very reasonable cost when I saw how much work it was. He only replaced the valves, most of the bronze thru hulls were solid and not leaking. Had to replace 2 thru-hulls because we could not find the correct metric valves to fit original thru-hulls.

5. Estimate $6,000-10,000 for all of them (just the valves).

5A. Went with bronze valves at about $90 each

5B. Labor part was about $2,100 and it was allot of hours. Several of them were very difficult to reach in the cabinets in the Heads

6. Most are easy to reach for operation. Most are difficult to reach for replacement. In cabinets or under the cabin sole.
Each Head has 5 thru-hulls, toilet 3, sink drain 1, shower drain 1 (above the waterline with valve). 4 valves are in the cabinet under the sink, 1 is under the cabin sole. Galley has 2 valves in the cabinet under the sink. Engine intake, cutlass bearing water supply are in the engine compartment (very tight). Genset intake and one AC unit intake are under the sole. Other AC unit intake is forward at the bottom of the watertight sail locker (full of gear)

7. Several failed but they were stuck and the rusty valve handles just came off. They never leaked or caused the boat to take on water.

8. I would do it again with a professional. Don't want to take chances with these and the quality work I had done at the St. Mary's Boat Yard in St. Mary GA was very reasonably priced.
__________________

[Lars_L]

Originally Posted by puffcard

I have a 1979, Tartan 37.

4 seacocks, Replaced all two years ago, about $200 material and did it myself. Greatest tip I found with thru-hulls. Don't mix brass pipe nibbles with bronze valve and use the pink EXTRA thick Teflon tape for the assembly. That might be the best item to have in a tool box. I've seen several thru valves fail, the most common is a frozen valve, broke handle or a bronze nibble breaking off after zinc dezincification

Brass is a mixture of copper and zinc. All other copper mixtures are named bronze, but the most common consists of copper and tin and very seldom zinc. Bronze can therefore not have dezincification.

[mynameismud]

My first boat 1972 Aquarius 23' had zero in her.

[barnakiel]

Last time I remember seeing quality hull fittings on the shelf was In Antigua. Not the cheapest shop in the world I guess.

I believe, when you change the seacocks, you may want to replace the thru hulls too, NO?

Boat 26ft.
6 fittings. (3x2 inch, 3x1 inch)

USD 1000,

A boat I work for has 40 fittings, many of which 3 incher (by the look). ;-)

b.

[Defeverboat]

On my 1979 43 ft defever sundeck for insurance I let the marina replace three gate valves and bronze through hulls under water. Cost $ 3,500 never again with that marina!

I replace the two engine old leaking through hulls that had rubber which expanded and the strainer on top. Manager said that would last forever?
cost for two new 1 1/4,5 inches long bronze through hulls $ 10.00 each and a friend to help to install with 5200 and backer pads. Bronze balls valves cost
$ 30.00 each.
New strainers $ 600.00. New A/C and generator bronze through hulls 1 1/4
5 inches long with new valves with 5200 cost 40.00 each. Used old strainers.

[leftbrainstuff]

Liberty 458, 1984. All bronze Groco seacocks flanged with backing plates and silicon bronze bolts. No gate valves. 1 marelon thru hull for the water maker inlet.

We haul every 2 years. Last haul we removed one seacock, replaced the forward head seacock and replaced two datamarine thru hulls with their B&G counterparts.

We have 9 below the water plus the 2 instrumentation thru hulls. We removed the anchor washdown which is now paired with the forward head intake. It was buried under the sail locker so practically unreachable.

The replaced black water tank seacock is now fitted with a polypropylene ball valve upstream of a camlock plumbed above the water line. This eliminates black water sitting behind the valve and pitting it.

Next haulout we'll replace both heads and likely make redundant another 4 seacocks.

The remaining seacocks are going to have a sea chest glassed in around them. The two cockpit drains and aft head outlet were replaced by the PO prior to purchased.

I've completed two probe surveys out of the water. All remaining seacocks are in excellent condition. I also sectioned the removed seacocks. Even though they were pitted both sealed well and suffered no metalurgical degradation.

We removed and replaced the seacocks ourselves. All are backed with G10. No wood. It's harder to work but a much better engineered solution than wood.

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[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by SailingFan

Well, I am a relative novice with a relatively small vessel, a '78 Hunter 27. I have two three valved through-hulls, two for the head (1 in and 1 out), and then another single valve for the raw water intake for the Yanmar SB-8 inboard. There are a few other plastic through-hulls, but they are all above the waterline.

I had to replace the one for the raw cooling water because it was completely blocked internally with some sort of calcium-like material and the handle for it could rotate with no movement of the internal valve body. I may or may not look farther into rebuilding the original, but replaced it with a brass ball valve (possibly a mistake, we shall see). That valve was all but impossible to reach, as it is under the galley cabinet drawer stack, and after both drawers are removed my arm BARELY fits into the opening of one of those two drawers, and you even have to pull the factory drawer support rails to reach this thing and the kingston valve handle. It is a pain and something I will probably be addressing in my current haul-out via an enlarged drawer set for the larger openings that can be then used.

The valves for the head are next on my list, though, and are currently frozen in the closed position. I put some PB Blaster on them inside and out in the hope of breaking them free, but have not attempted to turn them again since due to my hospital admission. I am planning to head out there tomorrow and have a check on those. They are relatively easy to see, but difficult to turn due to the location within the cabinetry behind the head, and the fact that a spanner is not very useful in the range of turning motion needed to open or close the valves (the bulkhead gets in the way of the wrench handle).

My wife is calling me, so more info soon!

You want to give that brass ball valve the float test. If it floats use it.

Seriously though. The only thong better than a flanged bronze sea cock is no sea cock.

Brass being an alloy of zinc and copper will experience dezincification in even the weakest saline solution. Bronze is an alloy of tin and copper and mostly impervious to the brass failure mode.

There is a reason there was a bronze age and not a brass age. Brass is pretty but should not be exposed to an environment where zinc is anodic.

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[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by mynameismud

My first boat 1972 Aquarius 23' had zero in her.

That's the ideal number.

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