Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by daletournier

When I posted previously I realized I should of said for " cruising" , but not doing so opened the door for the predictable above comment.
The majority of us aren't racers but cruisers. I think you will find that freedoms, as just one eg arent slow cruising boats. Also google the boat that is sailed by the guy that owns west marine, youll find that his large stayless ketch isnt slow at all, in fact very fast. Cruisers dont just beat at 35° to the wind, they sail on all angles and preferably off the wind. Off the wind I think youll find that these rigs really shine. Stayless does not mean slow.
A boats performance isnt just determined by the rig it has, there are many factors.
If one cares to open his/her mind and entertainment the idea of a stayless rig they will find that there are few draw backs in regards to a cruising boat.


Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

I race and you're absolutely right. If I have good wind anywhere aft of the nose, few boats can catch me. Short windward-leeward races in light wind are the worst but I'm working on my patience and keeping the boat moving.

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Hey now. Watch who you're calling "odd."

Although I've not been a member for long, the Freedom Yachts Forum seems like it's getting more input these days. It's a great group if you have or are interested in a Freedom.

My apologies, English is not my native language , however I used that 'odd' as a term of approximation.
I will be more precise: as at midnight UTC on 28-10-16 that forum has 943 members.

As far as calling people 'odd'....., let's say that sailors that favour yachts with freestanding masts are definitely in the minority, and there may be other sailors who call the former sailors "odd". I do not. On the other hand, I don't mind to be in this or other 'odd' group. So, if one doesn't mind, one can treat this second 'odd' as a term of endearment. Again, definitely never an offense intended.

[gamayun]

Hank, I was totally kidding with you!! People who sail unstayed rigs are definitely an odd lot: we don't follow the crowds, we like to take the unbeaten paths, we enjoy watching people puzzle over our boats. It is a term I fully embrace

By the way, your English is better than most Americans. I would not have guessed it wasn't your native language. Good on ya.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I race and you're absolutely right. If I have good wind anywhere aft of the nose, few boats can catch me. Short windward-leeward races in light wind are the worst but I'm working on my patience and keeping the boat moving.

Ive just sold my freedom but are still onboard helping new owner. We left Phi Phi several weeks ago at the same time as a Lagoon 400. 35nm down the track we pulled into our next anchorage, averaged 6.5k! The lagoon did not get there before us, keep in mind freeform is a 32/33 footer.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Hank, I was totally kidding with you!! People who sail unstayed rigs are definitely an odd lot: we don't follow the crowds, we like to take the unbeaten paths, we enjoy watching people puzzle over our boats. It is a term I fully embrace

Thanks for the above response Gamayun. I thought you were kidding, but being on the net, one is never sure. Hehehe, my choices of boat and other things are also often left or right of centre, and of course anything else but the centre (where the majority hangs out) can be described as "odd".
Thank goodness for 'oddness'. At least it is a place where I feel at home.

Now back to boats without wires.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Herreshoff Cat Ketch 38
1985
Draft 4' 6"
Free Standing Masts

Asking Price =$49,500
Location = Virginia
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/photographs/60583

Not much info on the sale listing. Says price recently reduced.

[DocRox]

Thanks for this Thread! Intrigued by the concept, daunted by the thought of the cost of replacing a couple carbon fiber masts, as I am stalking a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch.

[Scaramanga F25]

Originally Posted by DocRox

Thanks for this Thread! Intrigued by the concept, daunted by the thought of the cost of replacing a couple carbon fiber masts, as I am stalking a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch.

Why would one do that?

Fiberglass/carbon can be repaired, anywhere, if ever broken.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

Herreshoff Cat Ketch 38
1985
Draft 4' 6"
Free Standing Masts
....

Interesting post from NA Sponberg in post #13 at Freedom 33 - Is it really an ocean crosser? - Boat Design Forums about the Herreshoff.

He also mentions that the cost of a new carbon mast at around $15,000 back in 2007. This is mentioned in post #10.

Later,
Dan

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25

Why would one do that?

Fiberglass/carbon can be repaired, anywhere, if ever broken.

Sponberg said this regarding carbon fiber mast repairs,

If mast cracking extended into the carbon fiber, yes, the best thing to do would be to replace the masts. There are builders here in the US that can do it. You can also get a quote for masts from Formula Spars in the UK. They have the technology to build replacement masts, although I don't know if they would have a suitable size of mandrel, or if they could make one. But it might be worth a call to them.

This is in post #9 at Freedom 33 - Is it really an ocean crosser? - Boat Design Forums.

Later,
Dan

[Scaramanga F25]

Cost of a new alu mast and rigging would be little less than 15K$

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by DocRox

Thanks for this Thread! Intrigued by the concept, daunted by the thought of the cost of replacing a couple carbon fiber masts, as I am stalking a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch.

Hi, can they break ?yes but very seldom and as a previous poster has mentioned they can be repaired. Theres a guy in Malaysia at the moment who broke his freedom 39 mast, hes sleeving and scarfing it back together. Carbon fibre isnt new technology.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Steadman Uhlich]

Norwalk Island Sharpie. 29'

Designed by Bruce Kirby
cat ketch sharpie
Free Standing Masts Aluminum

Launched 2006
Marine plywood, fiberglass and epoxy construction
18" draft centerboard up

8' 6" beam legal to trailer
5800 lb displacement
2500# lead ballast

Asking Price = $18,000
Location = Florida

Sale Listing
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/photographs/62168

[beiland]

I got this private message from Eric Sponberg who lives close by me here in FL

The writer is in error to say that replacement masts cannot be made. They can. My go-to guy for that is Composite Engineering in Concord, MA.: Spars - Composite Engineering Inc., and in Australia, Rob Denney at Harry Proa: Harryproa, who is the sales agent for Etamax Engineering, also in Australia: Etamax Engineering - Composite Materials Engineers. Both of these firms cold design and engineer a carbon fiber replacement mast for the boat.

Other suppliers would be the following. They would likely need an engineered design of some kind so that they could follow a laminate schedule:
GMT Composites, who in the past have built some Freedom Masts: Welcome to GMT Composites | GMT Composites
Composite Solutions, who have a long autoclave and could do it: CSI - Composite Solutions Inc.
Forte Composites: Forte Carbon Fiber Products | Carbon Fiber Masts and Booms

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by beiland

I got this private message from Eric Sponberg who lives close by me here in FL

Good post!

Thanks for posting that and please pass the thanks on to Eric Sponberg too.

I will keep those links in my notes. I am sure he gets asked for stuff like that all the time.

What I would REALLY like to see is some REAL COSTS for replacement CF and Aluminum masts for the Freedom boats. I think ALL Freedom owners would want to know and ALL potential Freedom buyers too. I am surprised that info does not exist already. I searched for it last year and found nothing specific. I was looking at a Freedom that had lost a mast and spent hours and got nowhere. I moved on. I would like to see if we can put this kind of info together, working together.

OR, if the Freedom owners in CF are members of the Freedom Owners group, if they can ask and assemble such info and share it here in this thread too. I think it would be helpful and would likely help the Freedom owners overcome some objections when they are ready to sell their boats, and that always helps support boat prices. The UNKOWN is what scares people. KNOWN is something we can deal with individually.

Hope we can do something about this together folks!