Searching for a family boat

[hamburking]

I'm probably wrong, but it sounds to me like you are treating the boat like a house (or condo). 50 feet for your first boat? I'm sure your family could survive on a much smaller boat. It's a boat, not a house. Its different. You don't need your own bedroom. Your own bunk is plenty, with some privacy for the females to get changed.

A good friend of mine would sail (when he was younger) with his three siblings and two parents....that's 6 people total, 2 adults, four kids...they would sail for a full month on an old Mirage 27.

I met a family of 5 in the thousand islands who were just finishing up 2 weeks on a 22 foot trailer sailer (might have been an old chrysler 22).

I personally would spend a week at a time with my 2 kids on a C&C25. When they were older, we switched to a SIREN 17...and it was a blast!!!

My strategy has always been put the ladies in the vee, and get used to seeing the boys pee over the side (just look away).

A boat is not a house. Just my opinion.

And if you don't agree, here are a couple GREAT options that kinda meet your stated criteria, for sale locally here in Kingston Ontario.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/200...-4100-6819149/

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/cit...nis/1612681670

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-sailboat/sar...oat/1611591183

[Celestialsailor]

Maybe you could tell us your budget.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by PhillipPalacios

Well said! That’s good advice to be purposeful in our planning those jobs specifically. Thank you for that.
Do you know if your friends were overall happy with the boat? I know every boat will have maintenance, but did it seems like more or less than normal for a ex charter boat?

Appreciate it!
p

Those friends' first offshore trip, they had to rebuild the engine when they arrived in a foreign country where they did not speak the language. A kindly ex-RAF mechanic and ourselves helped them with it. So, they're intrepid enough. They were pleased with the Dufours boat, but it was pretty tired, definitely not "Bristol fashion." The thing is, they bought it to do a particular job, and it worked for them. Hiring the nanny freed up the lady for the sailing fun.

"Normal for a charter boat?" Perhaps. We've never looked at them in depth. But our desires were different from yours, and 3 cabins were adequate for ours. I would think that having separate spaces for different gender children during their teens would make their lives easier. However, those are Yank standards, and truly, people do learn to manage privacy needs in the small space that boats are. It helps if it is easy to talk about concerns as a family.

Ann

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Noisykate

It might be worth checking out the reports from recent ARCs to see what failures were reported under 'bluewater' conditions. Quite instructive.



FWIW I'd be prioritising keel and rudder design over 5 cabins v 4, but then I don't know you or your family.

No. Because most keel rudder debates are “ sterile “ based on personal preferences when in practice all modern solutions are more then adequate

The on board facilities need to suit the intended sailing ground and the families expectations.

Long after the keel is still attached the family will be arguing over the wrong choices for the facilities.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Those friends' first offshore trip, they had to rebuild the engine when they arrived in a foreign country where they did not speak the language. A kindly ex-RAF mechanic and ourselves helped them with it. So, they're intrepid enough. They were pleased with the Dufours boat, but it was pretty tired, definitely not "Bristol fashion." The thing is, they bought it to do a particular job, and it worked for them. Hiring the nanny freed up the lady for the sailing fun.



"Normal for a charter boat?" Perhaps. We've never looked at them in depth. But our desires were different from yours, and 3 cabins were adequate for ours. I would think that having separate spaces for different gender children during their teens would make their lives easier. However, those are Yank standards, and truly, people do learn to manage privacy needs in the small space that boats are. It helps if it is easy to talk about concerns as a family.



Ann

Having met many kids on long sojourns , I will venture that having kids on board is challenging ( and problematic ) . If you can ensure they all have private space , your right to focus on cabins etc.

What drives people off boats isn’t keels or rudders , it’s stuff like galleys , cabins , beds , and heads , this needs to meet expectations.

Sure anyone can accommodate nearly anything but that’s not the way to happiness

[Celestialsailor]

Another path the OP might want to try is chartering a few different lengths and models of sailboats.

[PhillipPalacios]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Another path the OP might want to try is chartering a few different lengths and models of sailboats.

Good call. This is partly why I'm doing the ASA courses most likely with at least one of the kids, to be able to do that without issue.

[PhillipPalacios]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Having met many kids on long sojourns , I will venture that having kids on board is challenging ( and problematic ) . If you can ensure they all have private space , your right to focus on cabins etc.

What drives people off boats isn’t keels or rudders , it’s stuff like galleys , cabins , beds , and heads , this needs to meet expectations.

Sure anyone can accommodate nearly anything but that’s not the way to happiness

Thats exactly why we're looking for our cabin count. the ages of our kids - they need private space - especially if we end up really liking it and then taking an extended sabbatical to sail.

[PhillipPalacios]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Maybe you could tell us your budget.

I'd like to stay under $180k all in - so figure a $120k boat will take about $40k in refit and then some extra for the first year in maintenance. Slip fees etc are separate in my accounting.

Of course if the boat is $110 then that allows for more refit, if its more, then less for refit.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by PhillipPalacios

I'd like to stay under $180k all in - so figure a $120k boat will take about $40k in refit and then some extra for the first year in maintenance. Slip fees etc are separate in my accounting.

Of course if the boat is $110 then that allows for more refit, if its more, then less for refit.

Certainly doable and does narrow it down. This is one I came across. Generally, you might have to go 50ft LOD. in order to find three separate cabins. It would probably be a former charter boat. Chances are, it will need a lot of upgrades.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/197...ar-53-8077737/

[Rumrace]

IM Sorry I mentioned the 54 it’s 1.6 M here well beyond your budget .
There are several older ex fleet Beneteau 47’ hull in various models with 4 suites and a Pullman in the master.
Someone mentioned Gulfstar and I feel compelled to add every old boat any brand needs help or suffered abuse. Avoid adding chopper gun fill boats to the long list of issues nope run away. Did they sandwich plywood in a deck with no brace, run away. 20 years old it will pop.
Most couch roofs all balsa core. Most bow decks and walking gunnel too. If the previous owners have screwed what ever new swivel beer holder then tossed and filed holes with silicone don’t buy it.
If someone cut the gel coat on the bow with an anchor and never repaired it don’t buy it.
If the manufacture ever used chopper gun fill assume all their boats are beyond your ability to judge. At 30 years old they are floating Epoxy patches. Any cracked gel coat anywhere pass. A dark crack around a sanction can cause a window to leak a meter away as the balsa migrated from the glass with a trickle of water and neglect.
Frankly these are things few surveyors catch.
I looked at a power boat for a pal. 4Winns hand laid solid hull. Great Merc and Alpha drive. The entry on the deep V was spongy. The boat was scrap. Yes you could grind out 1/3 the hull and Systems West a close copy. The hull was abused and not repaired. He was about to pay for a survey.
So the brand with the biggest volume of boats in most markets is Beneteau. Like em or not for over 100 years. The other boat seems to be an abundance of here are C&C. None big enough for you.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

IM Sorry I mentioned the 54 it’s 1.6 M here well beyond your budget .
There are several older ex fleet Beneteau 47’ hull in various models with 4 suites and a Pullman in the master.
Someone mentioned Gulfstar and I feel compelled to add every old boat any brand needs help or suffered abuse. Avoid adding chopper gun fill boats to the long list of issues nope run away. Did they sandwich plywood in a deck with no brace, run away. 20 years old it will pop.
Most couch roofs all balsa core. Most bow decks and walking gunnel too. If the previous owners have screwed what ever new swivel beer holder then tossed and filed holes with silicone don’t buy it.
If someone cut the gel coat on the bow with an anchor and never repaired it don’t buy it.
If the manufacture ever used chopper gun fill assume all their boats are beyond your ability to judge. At 30 years old they are floating Epoxy patches. Any cracked gel coat anywhere pass. A dark crack around a sanction can cause a window to leak a meter away as the balsa migrated from the glass with a trickle of water and neglect.
Frankly these are things few surveyors catch.
I looked at a power boat for a pal. 4Winns hand laid solid hull. Great Merc and Alpha drive. The entry on the deep V was spongy. The boat was scrap. Yes you could grind out 1/3 the hull and Systems West a close copy. The hull was abused and not repaired. He was about to pay for a survey.
So the brand with the biggest volume of boats in most markets is Beneteau. Like em or not for over 100 years. The other boat seems to be an abundance of here are C&C. None big enough for you.

I'm wondering where you would find chopper-gun in a boat over 25ft.?


Sandwhich plywood with no bracing...what does that mean? And after 20 years it will pop? Would you mind explaining the phenomenon? Chipped gelcoat on the bow, don't buy it? Could you explain this?

This one is the most confusing one for me..."Any cracked gel coat anywhere pass. A dark crack around a sanction can cause a window to leak a meter away as the balsa migrated from the glass with a trickle of water and neglect."

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by PhillipPalacios

....our kids - they need private space - ...

Why? Really. My aunt & uncle had kids in a single bedroom apartment and the bedroom was more like a big closet off the living room that the parents used because it was big enough for a double, not queen, sized bed.


They need sounds more like they want.


Wants and needs are truly different things.


Aboard a small boat, space matters. We are fortunate enough to have two staterooms. We get one, our kid gets the other. If our other kid is around, they choose who gets the cabin or the saloon. We do not cruise full time, granted, but kids should be adaptable, more than you think they could be.


Sorry for the rant.

[Tetepare]

We grew up with man and wife, four kids, and two dogs on a 30’ boat. Didn’t seem tight to me. Fabulous memories. I didn’t even know at the time my grandfather was one of 11 and they slept in the unheated attic. He turned out ok.


Well to each their own. Dreamers with money buy, they sell. We little people soldier on with close knit families, reading of the psycho crap the rich “suffer”.

[goboatingnow]

The “ you’re lucky , I was brought up in box in middle of road “ is a ridiculous debate.

People’s expectations move with the times , it was once acceptable to send children out to work !

Boats reflect people domestic standards, yes you can sh1t in a bucket , but we’ve moved on , our boats reflect our home.

Happy kids needs private space ( the adults need it to ) , especially teenagers , more people abandon long duration sailing because of issues with kids then any other reason in my experience. So anything you do to make it comfortable and enjoyable will help ( will it cure everything , god no )

Go as big as you can manage , these days with the right setup , a couple can sail a modern 47-50, around me every couple seem to graduate to 45 feet plus. ( and of course the beam at the stern is huge these days , giving great cockpit space and below decks space )