Searching for a family boat

[Rumrace]

Chopper gun boat over 25 feet. The list is huge. The one over 40’ is shorter but some on mentioned Gulf Star, Bayliner, Cheo Lee... Cracks in Gel coat assure water is migrating.
Many boats were made with plywood and non supported decks. They eventually delaminate. Since end grain balsa is chunks glass resin connects both surfaces.
The black lines near sanctions in the glass is stainless steel rusting into cracks in the glass around the sanction cause there is even a longer list of builders who did not through bolt hard ware. Not that they are bad boats today but don’t buy into a learning curve.
Cracked gel is hull flexing water migration or it’s just poor quality gel coat. Brand new production boats right out of the mould have gel coat flaws. Someone estimated it took $8,000.00 a hull for a QC man on the layup. It’s one of the reason vacuumed bag hulls were born. It’s also one reason why Hanse and Benniteau are playing with 3D printing hull. Hanse has printed a 38’ pocket yacht. The gel coat is exact each layer perfect attachment.
Some of the greatest brands of boats in history are having the 70,80, and 90’s rush to build boats are having their manufacturing errors laid out full. The Jeanneau Rigging mounts from US factory only 30’ model glassed in on wrong angle was late 90’s production and every single one is now failing
Without writing the caution on each brand these are some of the don’t fall in love with this boat and why. They are telltale signs in my view the boat is someone else’s problem.

[Rumrace]

Plywood engine hatch covers. Sea Ray, Ocean, Hatteras , Donzi, Cigarette, wellcraft , Cruisers Inc., Chris Craft just to list some of the greatest names in power boating done messed up. They all have balsa core now.
Bayliner actually tried a foam core. Appreciate the engine covers are the rear cockpit floor. So a 1977-84 SeaRay Cruiser has bad cockpit rear floor despite being one of the highest quality production boats built in volume.
I agree with the comment on C&C. Some real well preserved boats out there. The 40 was stunning Was a two fantastic suite boat.

[Rumrace]

As to can your children grow up in a boat?
Dunno. Mine wouldn’t couldnt I try to mind my business on not make assumptions on topics outside my scope

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I'm wondering where you would find chopper-gun in a boat over 25ft.?

"Sandwhich plywood with no bracing..." what does that mean? And "after 20 years it will pop"? Would you mind explaining the phenomenon? "Chipped gelcoat on the bow, don't buy it"? Could you explain this?

This one is the most confusing one for me..."Any cracked gelcoat anywhere - pass. A dark crack around a sanction can cause a window to leak a meter away as the balsa migrated from the glass with a trickle of water and neglect."

Originally Posted by Rumrace

Chopper gun boat over 25 feet. The list is huge. The one over 40’ is shorter but someone mentioned Gulfstar, Bayliner, Cheoy Lee...

Cracks in gelcoat coat ensure water is migrating.

Many boats were made with plywood and non-supported decks. They eventually delaminate. Since end-grain balsa is chunks, glass resin connects both surfaces.

The black lines near sanctions in the glass is stainless steel rusting into cracks in the glass around the sanction because there is even a longer list of builders who did not through-bolt the hardware. Not that they are bad boats today, but don’t buy into a learning curve.

Cracked gelcoat is the hull flexing water migration or it’s just poor quality gelcoat. Brand new production boats right out of the mould have gelcoat flaws. Someone estimated it took $8,000.00 a hull for a QC man on the layup. It’s one of the reason vacuumed bag hulls were born. It’s also one reason why Hanse and Beneteau are playing with 3D printing hull. Hanse has printed a 38’ pocket yacht. The gelcoat is exact each layer with perfect attachment.

Some of the greatest brands of boats in history in the 70's, 80's, and 90’s rush to build boats - are having their manufacturing errors laid out full. The Jeanneau Rigging mounts from US factory on the 30’ model was glassed in on wrong angle (late 90’s production) and every single one is now failing.

Without writing the caution on each brand these are some of the don’t-fall-in-love-with [cautions] and why. They are telltale signs in my view the boat is someone else’s problem.

I think he means "stanchions", Celestial. Shades of our beloved Manateeman, eh.

What is it with boatbuilders?

Rumrace, caution is notable, of course, but generally a solid survey will reveal the status of the boat and it's something we pretty well ALWAYS recommend here. I guess I would say, generally, that it often comes down to the long-term care of the boat by the Owner.

Widely known manufaturing flaws can also be a weird advantage to the used boat buyer. For example, the poorly tied-in chainplates in certain Island Packets are a well-known flaw. Often their repair/refabrication will be mentioned in the For Sale ad.

As far as the Gulfstar as a potential boat, Chotu used to own an absolutely gorgeous Gulfstar, so he could let you know about the brand generally.

That one in particular (Celestial linked to above) provokes a bunch of red flags for me - such as the NAPA auto parts on a boat, as well as the general condition (read: maze) of the engine/systems spaces - yes, the engines have been painted, but everything else has various jury-rigs and fix-it-yourself projects, I would guess, done by the owner. Ugh.

Not for me!
LittleWing77

Phillip - you might look into Island Packets for you and your family. You might find them a perfect compromise - heavy, yes, but seakindly and lots of living + storage space:

Are Island Packets Really that Slow?
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...low-95502.html

[nortonscove]

I've only ever been on one but was impressed with the boat given its obvious hard use. It was owned by a sailing group in Paris and it came out of an unfriendly sea on the Northern Peninsula here in Newfoundland while we were waiting out the weather in a tiny town called Griquet. They stayed one night after taking on some water and were gone the next morning. That one was about 44 feet I think and the crew were very happy with it having just arrived from the North Atlantic crossing. Spent an hour or so aboard getting the tour and giving them information about good stops on their way to St. Pierre. Seven crew on a 44 and they all appeared happy after entering port in seas of 5-7 metres says something I guess.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

I've only ever been on one but was impressed with the boat given its obvious hard use. It was owned by a sailing group in Paris and it came out of an unfriendly sea on the Northern Peninsula here in Newfoundland while we were waiting out the weather in a tiny town called Griquet. They stayed one night after taking on some water and were gone the next morning. That one was about 44 feet I think and the crew were very happy with it having just arrived from the North Atlantic crossing. Spent an hour or so aboard getting the tour and giving them information about good stops on their way to St. Pierre. Seven crew on a 44 and they all appeared happy after entering port in seas of 5-7 metres says something I guess.

Which? A Gulfstar or Island Packet?

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Which? A Gulfstar or Island Packet?

The answer was to the OP. The boat was a Gibsea. Very roomy and seemingly capable. The group had come the Northern route and last left Greenland prior to Newfoundland.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Which? A Gulfstar or Island Packet?

Originally Posted by nortonscove

The answer was to the OP. The boat was a Gibsea. Very roomy and seemingly capable. The group had come the Northern route and left Greenland prior to Newfoundland.

Ah! Since your post followed mine directly and hadn't quoted anything from the OP's original post, I mistakenly thought you were referring to one or the other of the boats I was talking about.

Thanks for clarifying,
LW77

[PhillipPalacios]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

I think he means "stanchions", Celestial. Shades of our beloved Manateeman, eh.


Phillip - you might look into Island Packets for you and your family. You might find them a perfect compromise - heavy, yes, but seakindly and lots of living + storage space:

Are Island Packets Really that Slow?
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...low-95502.html

I’ve seen a couple island packets that might fit the bill- they seem to move faster then the others we’ve been looking at.

[alaskasail]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

Take a good look at my schooner, just come on the market today. 25.4.22.

Your site is not coming up. Do you have another URL?

[kurtis king]

Peterson 44 with an aft cabin

[Juice13]

I sailed a Moorings Beneteau 505 around the BVIs 15 years ago for a couple of weeks.

5 cabins 5 heads!

This is not an endorsement, only an acknowledgment that this boat exists. Sailed pretty well on a beam reach!

This was just before the explosion of catamarans hit the charter market.

One pops up for sale every so often around the $100k mark.
https://stlucia.boatshed.com/benetea...at-231005.html

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/beneteau-50

[Rumrace]

I have no idea why Napa would cause concern. Most have rebuilt marine alternators in stock. Marine and RV section.
Canadian Tire in Canada has every impeller for every outboard in stock in many store. Fram filters for Suzuki Yamaha Yanmar.
There was another person posting about converting a Beneteau with two from births into a single. I think it takes a bit of doing but cutting new panels to convert a model is not out of the question even for big walls on some models.

[SailingSami]

Just a quick suggestion, as a compromise between a Cat and monohull, look at a used Neel Trimaran.
They perform as well or better than most Monohulls, handle/ point like a monohull, but have the space and cabins you want. They have neerly the comfort of a Cat, with just the right amount of heel.
They can be competitive in price to larger monohull.
I’m a biased big Trimaran nut, but give them a look over, try an do a day sail.
I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

[Luxcat]

Exciting! Your requirements almost define that you're looking for a catamaran. There may be a couple of monohulls that provide 4 cabins but the configs are gonna be tight. Either 2 aft berths and a spilt V up front to create to separate, tight cabins. Maybe there's a side berth but until the boats gets big it's going to be tough to find. It sounds like you're trying to make sure everyone has some space. A mid 40's cat would do that in spades plus have extra living space during the day. And contrary to the folklore, they do quite successfully circumnavigate. The only real issues with a cat are that they don't fit into most slips and not all yards can haul them.