Sequence for shortening sail on a ketch?

[Sailmonkey]

What point of sail?

Our reefing greatly depends on point of sail. Anything below a beam reach we’ve already lost the mizzen.

Above a beam reach our main is the first to go.

This is on an Allied Seawind II.

[Sailmonkey]

What point of sail?

Our reefing greatly depends on point of sail. Anything below a beam reach we’ve already lost the mizzen.

Above a beam reach our main is the first to go.

This is on an Allied Seawind II.

[Hudson Force]

It also depends upon what I expect for the future. It was always easiest for us to simply drop the main and sail well balanced with the genoa and the mizzen; however, if we were expecting more than a couple hours or continued increased winds, then we would furl the genoa and put up our hanked-on club foot working jib. Next, we would reef the working jib and reef the mizzen before bare poles.

I should add that we rarely decided to cruise in heavy weather. We most always had choices for protected anchorages and rarely had any destination deadlines. Most of our times for shortening sails were for short-lived afternoon squalls or maybe just a quick passing front. Particularly in Florida and the Bahamas, we're accustomed to an afternoon event of dark sky, wind, and heavy rain for less than an hour and then all bright and sunny with 15 kt. winds again. For these events we would usually drop everything and motor at low rpm into the wind for a while staying in place. This was often the best choice with little visibility near reefs and shoals.

[LeFevreBreeze]

I had the same question when we bought our Ketch. She is a 36’ Roberts design and our first boat.
I read that building sails from the mizzen to the main (vs the other way around) is the way to go. The reverse for shortening sail. This has worked well for us and the boat sails well in a 30knot wind with Mizzen and a reduced headsail. Things still work using the main but its size makes it harder to handle and its location can add to weather helm because the boat looses the balance.
That said our mizzen has no reef and if I were in a situation where I had to heave-to I would have a storm sail up on the main mast.

[CapnBazza]

Originally Posted by yesthatsue

We're buying a ketch, and while she isn't our first split rig (I built a little 20' schooner rigged canoe yawl that we sailed for a few seasons), she is our first ketch.

When you're shortening sail, what sequence do you shorten in? In a vacuum, I'd probably partially furl the headsail, then reef the main in stages and take it in, and eventually wind up under storm jib and reefed mizzen, but what sequence gets you there?

And our boat has a main trysail. For heaving to, I'd want to be using the (reefed) mizzen, and as tiny a storm jib as possible, or do I heave to under reefed mizzen and trysail? Taking in the storm jib and mizzen, setting the trysail, and later taking in the trysail to reset the reefed mizzen as a riding sail seems like an odd way to do it.

Anyway, in what order do folks shorten sail on ketches?

I think you have the right idea. At 30+ knots we cruised comfortably under staysail and mizzen.

[yesthatsue]

Originally Posted by waterman46

In spite of the overwhelming recommendations of seasoned ocean sailors, I am not convinced there is any need for a trysail on a ketch.

Well, our ketch came with one, so we've got it, whether we would have gotten one or not.

The thing I never hear about is a mizzen trysail, not to sail with, but for use as a pure riding sail. Yes, you can use your deep reefed mizzen, sheeted flat, for that, but I'd rather not risk my mizzen in a blow so serious that I'd be on my para-anchor with a riding sail set. And it'd be a handy thing for at anchor. You're not trying to actually trim the thing to make it draw, so just clewing it down to a towing cleat on the centre line should theoretically do, and it can be cut perfectly flat. Does anyone actually have such a thing, and if so, how did it work?

[bailsout]

My Herreshoff 28 ketch has a staysail, too. All sails are yanked on. I don’t reef the main, I just drop it. If I started with the big genoa that is dropped first, then the main until I’m left with staysail and mizzen. Sometimes I’ll drop the main first then the working jib if it was hanked on that day. It comes down pretty easily compared to the big Genoa. It do depend....

[keithw88]

On my 52 feet Moody Carbineer motorsailer (c 25 tons all-up), I do pretty much what Waterman sets out above.

Upwind: I have a genoa and a staysl, so furling away a bit of the genoa is first. Then reef the main a bit (its on a furler boom). Next furl away the genoa and unfurl the stays'l. Now getting up into the 30's, the main gets seriously reefed, and fully reefed away once we into the 40's. Reefing the mizzen is a bit of a pain (I was too mean to buy a furler boom, to my frequent regret). but I will do if the wind is going up into the 40's and beyond.

Downwind: Reefing early is a priority, and reefing the main and the mizzen are the jobs to worry about, as doing so in rising wind and building seas means turning back upwind and picking a moment to turn across the seas. Dropping the mizzen completely means one less thing to worry about, but if it looks like we are going to get a breeze well into the 30's then the main gets put away at the same time. I can then sail downwind with a full or somewhat reefed genoa, swapping to the stays'l as the wind builds. As a motor-sailer, I will happily use motor power going downwind when I feel the autopilot needs a bit of help to avoid any tendency to broach.

As for a trys'l for the main, I think these are outdated on any boat with modern sailcloth, and are doubly unnneccessary for a ketch.

So my view about mizzen trys'ls is that I personally trust my sailcloth to be good well into the 50's, but I would consider specifying my next mizzen to be roachless and batten-less (but still reefable - max 2 reefs).
I don't know if the riding concept works in practice - my fully-battened mizzen slats and bangs at anchor. If I were to hang off a parachute sea-anchor, I imagine the constant tacking and shaking would be far more worrying than the waves. (PM me if you want to buy my 17 feet Para-Anchor!).

A 'delta' mizzen might be of interest for anchoring but would probably worry me just like my current mizzen would hanging off a sea-anchor. (By 'delta', I mean effectively two sails of the same shape with a common luff and each 'sail' sheeted as far off the centre-line as possible).

PS, sheeting a mizzen on the centre-line maximises the slatting and banging: in the absence of a good current, offsetting the rode to one side by a bridle and sheeting the mizzen to the same side does help sometimes.

Interesting times..