Sink or swim ?

[Canada Bob]

Just back from a round trip on the QM2 from Southampton to Halifax, NY and the return leg back to Southampton. On the outward journey the QM2 received the distress call from the yacht Tamarind that had been caught in some bad weather and high rolling seas.

It was quite an experience for everyone aboard the QM2 to witness the rescue mission, the C130 from Nova Scotia, the bulk carrier standing off until the QM2 arrived, due to the sea state they weren't able / didn't have the equipment to get Mervyn Wheatley aboard.

It was a masterful job by the Officers of the QM2 to get Tamarind in our lee some 200ft from our port side, but it took quite a while to get the yacht alongside of us, seems that Tamarind had lost all power and steering.

Eventually the QM2 launched one of those plastic type zodiacs and managed to get the skipper of Tamarind aboard, that wasn't an easy step either, one slip there and lives could have been lost.

The skipper of Tamarind threw his essentials {including his EPIRB} onto the rescue boat, then disappeared back into the cabin before managing to get into the rescue boat.

You could see that Mervyn was pretty well exhausted, seems he'd been battling through the seas for over 36 hours, he was >200 NM from the QM2 when we got the call, so although he knew we were on out way it took the QM2 9 hours to get to him.

Once aboard and after a good rest he gave a talk to the passengers, the theatre was packed, so it went out on the ships CCTV as well.

It was a thrilling tale to say the least, especially when we saw that Mervyn was 73 years old, seems a bit on the top side to me to be sailing single handed across the Atlantic at a time of year when hurricanes aren't unknown...

The thing I remember during the rescue was how Tamarind was let go to "sink or swim"
I watched as she was left in our wake and it was a very sad sight to see, no one likes to lose a boat, it's not just the value of them we also have an emotional attachment to them.

During the talk Mervyn was asked "why did you go back into the boat" he told us that he went back in "to open the sea cocks" with the intent to sink Tamarind...

I don't know the boat, other than the details on the web site below...

PASSPORT 42 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Of the smaller yachts that I've had over the years you couldn't sink them if you tried, I guess some boats are designed / built like that. If I ever thought of sailing blue waters waterlogged buoyancy would be near the top of my list.

Mervyn went on to say that he scuppered the boat that he'd owned it for 20 years, to make sure it didn't become a hazard to shipping.

As mentioned I've never done blue water and I've never had to abandon a boat. Is it the standard procedure to scupper a boat to ensure it doesn't become a hazard to shipping ?

As for "shipping" I doubt that a 42 ft boat would be much of a hazard to ships, many of them wouldn't even notice they'd shredded it. As for a hazard to smaller craft, if that was my concern I'd have to be SURE that the boat would sink, if it didn't then there'd be more of a hazard due to it being lower in the water.

One thing I didn't see/notice on Tamarind was a radar reflector, the QM2 couldn't "see" the yacht until we were around 1/2 NM from it's position, we had to be guided in by the C130.

What's the standard procedure when in such circumstances, to let the yacht take it's chance {with at least a radar reflector deployed} or attempt to sink it ?

My thoughts are that the weather was improving rapidly, although the sea was still rough at the time of the rescue the swell was calming down quite rapidly. I'm sure that if Tamarind hadn't been scuppered it would have survived.

If I lost a boat I'd rather think of it being found by someone and being of benefit to them than to think of it being at the bottom of the ocean.

So the questions are, what's the standard blue water procedure in such circumstances ?

Going off the specs would Tamarind have actually sunk ? or would it have become a waterlogged / almost invisible hazard ?

Would it have been better to leave it to take its chance, I guess the sad sight of seeing the boat "abandoned" got at me a bit.

Canada Bob.

[Don C L]

Well, welcome aboard here Bob! That's quite a first story for us right out of the gate! Thanks for sharing that. I've heard it go both ways, let her float away or as was the case there, or try to scuttle, or scupper, the boat. Yes, the boat will sink, at least that one will. As you could see, many boats can handle much more than people can. No radar reflector is a little odd, though it may have been blown away. AIS would have been good to have there... if electrical was still working.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Howdy Canada Bob! And Welcome Aboard CF!

That is a very good post, especially a first post. Thanks for sharing what you saw.

Many members of this forum were interested in this storm and the racers who encountered it and the rescues. Your view of the scene from the QE2 adds something.

Please describe how the storm or seas appeared to you on the big ship. Obviously it would be different on small sailboats, but I would still like to hear what the QE2 may have experienced or how the storm appeared.

Thanks for adding to the mix of things to read here on CF. I hope you enjoy your time here.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Canada Bob,

A topic like this deserves some photos to illustrate it. IF you have some snapshots of what you saw, please post them in this thread. I think others will find them interesting to see.

I will send you some tips on how to post photos on CF threads. It is easy.

[JPA Cate]

Welcome aboard, Canada Bob,

The hazard to shipping lies in the small yachts that might hit it -- with loss of life following. Yes, it is considered the responsible thing to do if you abandon your boat.

Yes, it is also tough. If you can find it, Susan Mitchell wrote an article about the scuttling of the "White Cloud", following a plank letting go. It was published in the magazine "Latitude 38", on the order of 25 years ago. It was something I read, while we were out in the South Pacific in 1990 or thereabouts. Tears streamed down my face.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Bob.

Yes, it's fairly common practice to scuttle an abandoned boat.

[Hud3]

Thanks for posting the story, Canada Bob.

Apparently he was participating in a trans-Atlantic race at the time, his 19th Atlantic crossing.

Here's a news article on the incident. He experienced a knock-down, and a port was broken, allowing water to flood in.

British sailor made traumatic decision to sink his boat as he was rescued by Cunard liner from Atlantic storm

[Canada Bob]

Hello Don,

Well, welcome aboard here Bob!
Thanks for the welcome, it's appreciated...

That's quite a first story for us right out of the gate! Thanks for sharing that.

You never know what might happen when you step aboard a vessel hey, sure as hell we didn't expect this to happen on our way to Halifax. It's normally just kippers for breakfast and T Bones for T ;-)

I've heard it go both ways, let her float away or as was the case there, or try to scuttle, or scupper, the boat. Yes, the boat will sink, at least that one will. As you could see, many boats can handle much more than people can.
It was a real sad sight to see Tamarind left in our wake, more so that I seemed to be the only one on the ship with eye aft rather than forrard. It wasn't until the next day that we found out that Mervyn has scuppered Tamarind, I'd hoped that she would have survived and she seemed to be doing OK as she was left in our wake, I could see her until she was well above 2 KN away and she looked to be doing fine, I wished her well, only to find out that Mervyn had "opened some sea cock" well, that's what he said, but later went on to say he cut through a small bore pipe, if that was the case then it would have been a slow demise for Tamarind.

It's not a pleasant sight to see a boat abandoned, it certainly got at me, boats do become part of us, more so when you've had the boat for as long as Mervyn had Tamarind, it really is like losing a friend.

If I was in a situation like that I wouldn't be able to scupper a boat, what's the chance of it becoming "a hazard to shipping", a ship would shred it, sure a yacht could run into it, but at what speed and to sustain what damage, mind you without a radar reflector on it that only increases that risk.

Apologies for the sentiment above, I know it's probably not the "rule of the road" so to speak, but sometimes emotion over rules sensibilities...

No radar reflector is a little odd, though it may have been blown away.
Yea, I can't figure that one out either, if I was bobbing about in the middle of the Atlantic or anywhere else that's the first thing I'd be deploying if {and why wasn't} it already deployed.

AIS would have been good to have there... if electrical was still working.
Tamarind must have had AIS as records show that at the time of the knock down she was actually leading the race, fair enough Mervyn could have reported his position, but who would go into blue water without AIS ?

As for the electrics, we were told that the knock down put paid for that and therefore to the engine and the pump, seems that got clogged up with some of Mevyn's socks as they tried to abandon ship leaving Mervyn trying to stay above the waves via a hand pump, no wonder he looked knackered and frayed when he finally got aboard the QM2.

I have a few short video's of the rescue, not sure if I can upload them into here ? I think there's a way of uploading them to a site and then posting a link to them, if anyone knows how to do that I'd appreciate their help, maybe I can send the vid's to Admin or to someone who's better versed in that than I am ?

Canada Bob.

[Canada Bob]

Hello SH,

That is a very good post, especially a first post. Thanks for sharing what you saw.
Thanks for the above, appreciated...

Many members of this forum were interested in this storm and the racers who encountered it and the rescues. Your view of the scene from the QE2 adds something.
Hopefully I'll be able to find a way {with someone's help maybe} to upload the video's that I took, they aren't long, just 1 or 2 minutes...

Please describe how the storm or seas appeared to you on the big ship. Obviously it would be different on small sailboats, but I would still like to hear what the QE2 may have experienced or how the storm appeared.
Well, we had seen swells of around 30ft plus, it's hard to judge on a ship that's over 1,000ft
in length and you're perched up some 60ft or more above the sea, but that's how it looked the day before the MAYDAY but {much to my chagrin} the QM2 had taken a course North of and away from the centre of the storm, so maybe Tamarind had seen 40ft swells the day it got knocked down {Mervyn told us he was sleeping when the knock down occurred}.

By the time 9 hours after receiving the call to attend, by the way, it wasn't a MAYDAY as such, it was the EPIRB that went off and that was picked up {all over the place} but the folks near Plymouth {England} got the signal first and then alerted the Canadian's and everyone else including the QM2 and the bulk cargo ship that actually got there first {but couldn't get Mervyn aboard} by radio. The Canadians sent out a C130 that stayed on station until it had to hand over to a Portuguese C130 {handy 'planes hey}, which in turn handed over to a second Canadian C130 that oversaw the actual rescue...

That in itself was quite an Op', Mervyn's portable VHF was almost out of battery so they tried to drop him a radio {twice} but due to the rollers they finished up more than 100 yards away from Tamarind, they also tried to drop a raft to him, but that suffered the same fate, chances are someone will find them washed ashore near Galway...

Thanks for adding to the mix of things to read here on CF. I hope you enjoy your time here.
Thanks for the welcome, it's valued and appreciated...

Canada Bob.

[Canada Bob]

The hazard to shipping lies in the small yachts that might hit it -- with loss of life following. Yes, it is considered the responsible thing to do if you abandon your boat.

Understood and appreciated, glad that I've never had to "abandon ship" it's not the monetary
cost, it's the attachment folks have to a boat, even if it's little more than a canoe, we get attached to them...

Yes, it is also tough. If you can find it, Susan Mitchell wrote an article about the scuttling of the "White Cloud", following a plank letting go. It was published in the magazine "Latitude 38", on the order of 25 years ago. It was something I read, while we were out in the South Pacific in 1990 or thereabouts. Tears streamed down my face.

I can relate to that emotion, once Mervyn was aboard the QM2 all eyes were on him, except mine that is, I was wishing Tamarind well as we left her, and I was sure she'd survive, until I heard the next day that Mervyn had scuppered her

From what folks say and from the spec of the boat it seems she would have gone down after Mervyn cut that pipe, but if he hadn't have done that she'd be somewhere on the Emerald Isle by now...

Bob.

[gjordan]

I also wonder about the lack of a radar reflector. With the modern emphasis on electronics (AIS) are people not bothering with reflectors, or maybe it did blow away in the storm? Obviously depending on ships electronics in that situation didnt work. Another thing I wonder about is scuttling. Is an abandoned yacht any more dangerous than a single handed yacht with an exhausted skipper in a deep sleep? I dont mean to re-start the endless arguments about single handing, but other than electronics which dont always work, how is one more dangerous than the other? Just my thoughts. _____Grant.

[Canada Bob]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Bob.
Thanks for the above, appreciated...

Yes, it's fairly common practice to scuttle an abandoned boat.
I imagine it's much like having to put your dog down, or, in this case, for me it felt like that, even though it was someone else's dog, boats and dogs become part of us.

The worst I even faced on a boat is outlined on the link below...

Turning Turtle -- Lionheart

Mind you, that wasn't the worst event in my life, I was once subject to an assassination plot.

https://www.uow.edu.au/~bmartin/diss...s/Norburn.html

Canada Bob.

[Patrick Hollier]

This excellent post revived a sad memory: having to abandon CHESSA, my friend's Ericson 34, 450 Miles NW of Bermuda on December 12, 2012. The captain of SMT Bontrup, the bulk carrier that rescued us told us that even though he knew our position, he didn't see our reflector signature on the radar screen until he was 1 1/2 miles away.

[Canada Bob]

I also wonder about the lack of a radar reflector.
Well, it struck me as quite odd...

With the modern emphasis on electronics (AIS) are people not bothering with reflectors, or maybe it did blow away in the storm?
I doubt it was blown away, but even if that was the case I think I would have run something up to reflect where I was...

Obviously depending on ships electronics in that situation didnt work.

Yep, lose the engine and you can lose everything, it's one domino after another...

Another thing I wonder about is scuttling. Is an abandoned yacht any more dangerous than a single handed yacht with an exhausted skipper in a deep sleep?

I doubt I could scupper a boat, but, I've never been 73 years old and at my wits end in a stormy sea yet, and I hope never to be, so we can't say what we would do, or what mistakes we might make...

I dont mean to re-start the endless arguments about single handing,

I think that once you reach a certain age it's not all that good an idea, for most folks...

but other than electronics which dont always work, how is one more dangerous than the other? Just my thoughts.
I guess it's easy for us to say after the event when we weren't in it, but if I was Mervyn I think I'd be staying home, or at least closer to shore from now on in, but, he says he'll have another crack at it {when he's 74} !!!

[Canada Bob]

Hello Patrick,

This excellent post revived a sad memory: having to abandon CHESSA, my friend's Ericson 34, 450 Miles NW of Bermuda on December 12, 2012. The captain of SMT Bontrup, the bulk carrier that rescued us told us that even though he knew our position, he didn't see our reflector signature on the radar screen until he was 1 1/2 miles away.
I guess that was because the yacht and the reflector were too low {in a trough maybe} and his radar was too high to pick you up until Chessa popped up on his screen.

The C130 dropped smoke right near Tamarind, but even though we were just a couple of miles away it was hard to spot, we didn't see any flares in the sky from Tamarind though, but he did say he'd let off some smoke...