Sta-Lok disassemble?

[mikebikeboy]

Ok well cool then. Because I know that wire has been caked in mud for 2 years inside those foils, and was thinking it would be a good idea to replace it. Now I can cut it off and bring it home where I have vises and stuff

Thanks!

[mikebikeboy]

Unrelated question, but to figure out the size of rigging wire it is, do I simply measure the thickness of the wire with some calipers? I'm seeing wire on Defender that's not too expensive.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by mikebikeboy

Unrelated question, but to figure out the size of rigging wire it is, do I simply measure the thickness of the wire with some calipers? I'm seeing wire on Defender that's not too expensive.

Yep, OD measurement

[mikebikeboy]

Many thanks!

[Manateeman]

Mikebikeboy. Hi. There are a bunch of videos on changing the headstay wire.
Search Drake Paragon who is a fine rigger and has good camera work. Also Patrick Childress.
Highly recommend all the books by Brian Toss who has crossed the bar and will be deeply missed by many sailors.
Regards, Mark the manatee

[pressuredrop]

You can use old cones if they are decent, i have 10,000 ocean miles on em to proove it.

[CassidyNZ]

I’ve never worked with StaLok products so this is a purely “engineering” observation, not a “know-it-all” response. Like they say in the classics - I know nutheeng.

Looking at the picture posted, I would make a driver using a nut that screws onto the fitting and a piece of pipe that fits over the fitting. Screw the driver firmly onto the fitting, clamp the cable in a vice and tap the fitting back up the cable.

What is in the fitting that prevents this?

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

I’ve never worked with StaLok products so this is a purely “engineering” observation, not a “know-it-all” response. Like they say in the classics - I know nutheeng.



Looking at the picture posted, I would make a driver using a nut that screws onto the fitting and a piece of pipe that fits over the fitting. Screw the driver firmly onto the fitting, clamp the cable in a vice and tap the fitting back up the cable.



What is in the fitting that prevents this?

It’s not the fitting itself specifically, it’s the inability to really clamp the wire securely enough to transfer the beating. Larger sizes may release more easily, but 1/4” and 5/16” just distort the wire trying to move the nut, at least in my experience.

Hi-mod fittings release from the wire fairly easily with a little heat from an electric heat gun, and a gently twisting tap. Sta-loks defeat me every time.

[CassidyNZ]

So again admitting no previous experience with StaLok products, I knocked together this little drawing of my limited understanding. I’m sure there will be some comments about how wrong I am but that’s OK

If I look at my vice, the jaws are 6” wide meaning I can clamp that much cable in them. That’s going nowhere. And if the fitting is just, say, 3mm from the jaws, surely the fitting has to move along the cable even if just the 3mm? And then another 3mm. And so on.

[Jim Cate]

G'Day Mikebike,

Rejoining the forum this morning I discover that I am "unconscionable", a state new to my experience. I think it means that I should not offer advice, but I'm gonna anyhow...

From your OP, I thought you were wanting to move the fitting up the wire for inspection WITHOUT CUTTING the wire. I see now t hat you are willing to cut it, and that makes it somewhat easier. As several others have said, cut the wire as close to the fitting as possible and use a punch to drive the wire stub out. And (dare I say it) it may take a lot of pounding, but i t will eventually come out. You do loose a few i nches of wire doing this. Depending upon the specific geometry of your furler, and the available adjustment in your rigging screw, you might be able to re-use the wire, but not for sure. And in your place, if t he budget allows, replacing it is a good idea. Forestay wires inside furlers have a habit of failing just where they exit the top terminal, and IMO should be replaced more frequently than the rest of the standing rigging wires. I would recommend replacing the cone... they are not too dear, and while some have had success with re-use, for a few bucks I'd prefer not to worry about that issue.

Now, it isn't clear if you have disassembled the foil for cleaning the mud out of it. If you have not, and don't intend to do so, don't pull the wire out until you are ready to put the new one in. There is a simple, low strength end-to-end splice that will allow you to use the old wire to guide the new one up through the several bearings inside the foil. Otherwise it is damn hard to do on most designs of furler (you might mention what type yours is).


And Manateeman, you might want to back off on the disparaging words about other forum members, even if you disagree with their advice. It both abrogates forum rules and reflects badly upon yourself.

Jim

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

So again admitting no previous experience with StaLok products, I knocked together this little drawing of my limited understanding. I’m sure there will be some comments about how wrong I am but that’s OK

If I look at my vice, the jaws are 6” wide meaning I can clamp that much cable in them. That’s going nowhere. And if the fitting is just, say, 3mm from the jaws, surely the fitting has to move along the cable even if just the 3mm? And then another 3mm. And so on.

That may work. I’ve not tried that exact setup. However after fighting with my first sta-lok thinking I’d just open it to inspect it , I did more damage than would have resulted from leaving well enough alone. I’m not sold on inspecting the wire, and replacement is just easier cutting the wire.

[mikebikeboy]

Hi Jim Cate,

When I originally posted, my intention was to remove the sta-lok fitting for inspection and for the ability to remove the wire from the foils for cleaning the delicious Mississippi mud out of there. Currently with sta-lok in place, I cannot remove wire from foils.

After reading comments, and Sailmonkey mentioned that wire isn't that $$$, I thought why not just replace since it's been caked in mud for 3 years, trapped inside the foils with moisture.

I don't know what the fitting up top looks like. This is the lower part that connects to the furler (Harken III Unit 0). I'm hoping the fitting up top is something I can buy because I have no experience making fittings.

I'm willing to spend a few hundred bux on a new wire for this.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by mikebikeboy

Hi Jim Cate,

When I originally posted, my intention was to remove the sta-lok fitting for inspection and for the ability to remove the wire from the foils for cleaning the delicious Mississippi mud out of there. Currently with sta-lok in place, I cannot remove wire from foils.

After reading comments, and Sailmonkey mentioned that wire isn't that $$$, I thought why not just replace since it's been caked in mud for 3 years, trapped inside the foils with moisture.

I don't know what the fitting up top looks like. This is the lower part that connects to the furler (Harken III Unit 0). I'm hoping the fitting up top is something I can buy because I have no experience making fittings.

I'm willing to spend a few hundred bux on a new wire for this.

G'Day again MikeBike,

Things become a bit clearer now! First, some bad news: even if you got the Sta Lok apart and loosened from the wire, the upper part won't come off the wire because the outer layer of wires are permanently splayed outward by the cone and the increased diameter won't go through the hole in the fitting. And even if you could force the fitting over the bulge, the wire would be awfully hard to extract through the internal bearings in the foil. Another good reason to replace the wire!

As to the top terminal: it may be another Sta Lok, or it may be a swaged terminal. Both are used, so you'll have to check yours to see. If it is swaged, you'll need to get a similar fitting put on your new wire. If it is a Sta Lok, the same exercise as the bottom fitting will be needed.

If there is a lot of mud inside the foil, can you get a hose and do a lengthy high volume flush to clean it out? If not, then I fear you will have to separate the foil sections and clean them individually. I'm not specifically familiar with the Harken furlers, and don't know how they attach the sections together. Many types use small screws, and if t he original assembly didn't use some form of anti seize, they can be very hard to get out. Other designs use some form of spring widgets; they can be easy or hard, depending on specifics (and your luck!).

Upon further thought, doing the flushing with the wire still in place may be impossible. And getting a new wire through without using the old wire as a guide is often difficult. So, disassembly may be required... a bummer!

Let us k now what you find as you continue to investigate!

Jim

[RaymondR]

If you don't know the history of the wire and it sounds like it has lived a less than benign life and the wire is actually the cheapest part of the system you should probably replace it anyway.

[mikebikeboy]

Hi Jim, thanks for your thorough reply. According to the Harken manual there are little "Connector Locking Wedges" and from what I saw there are black plastic inserts that tie the alum-foils together. If anyone knows if these will give me trouble getting them apart, I'm all ears! Sometimes I go all the way up to the boat only to realize I did not bring a certain tool.



I didn't think ahead to how difficult or impossible it would be to yank the wire with distorted end through all the foils. So new wire it is. Yes unfortunately I believe I need to disassemble the entire thing, because the mud has gotten into every possible crevice. The mud is very fine silty stuff that gets into everything.

Will keep this thread updated when I go back to the boat today or tomorrow and make headway.