Steel Boats and Welding

[SaltyMonkey]

Now we're talking - explosive welding!

Just back from looking at a Tartan 37. Broker(s) say selling lower than usual because of cosmetic issues. Boat looked pretty good. A little oxy dust on the chain plates inside - might be electo related, but not much. Some small minor stains. Pounded the decks w/ mallet. Seemed uniformly tuned. I was baffled at the price. Mast needed painting here and there, but starboard spreader was almost totally bare down to metal. When I pointed this out el broker said "Bird s** - osis" Hmmm I said..."seems they all like to stay only on the north side?" Riiiiight.

Figured out why steel better interiors sometimes - people aren't meant to live in round things

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

bangkaboat - pah! For boatbuilding, a couple of weeks does a welder make - thick or thin; large or small. But just don't ask me to weld cross materials - alum to steel; steel to tung.

SO, you've made it clear that you know nothing about welding or boatbuilding. Sounds as though you're perfect for building one of Brent's boats. LMAO!

[SaltyMonkey]

Hey listen bangkaboat, I've worked in both classic wood and glass for 35 or so odd years - pro and non. What's metal but harder wood that won't float, right? :O

[Yachts66]

Oh my, the little monkey is really going to hate me now:

Yes, you can weld aluminum to steel, it's normally done with a bimetallic strip. The most common application is boat building is to weld an aluminum dog house onto a steel deck. You weld the steel side of the bimetallic strip to the steel deck and the aluminum dog house to the aluminum side of the strip. This does not protect you from the effects of electrolysis, but it can be done. Of course, it's not inexpensive to do either. The monkey has lots of money so he won't mind the added cost. Still mixing dissimilar metals in salt water is never a good idea.

TIG is absolutely a cool process and can produce incredibly pretty welds. It's only used in specialty applications because it's also an incredibly slow process and as indicated earlier, an expensive process as well. You can also use TIG to clean up poor welds, making them much better and much prettier.

Audiogauge also referred to sometimes as sonogram is used to check the thickness of metal, not the quality of the weld. Advanced audiogauge machines can even tell you the thickness of the paint covering the metal. They are pretty handy to have if you own a steel boat and can afford one. X-rays are typically used to check for weld quality without destroying the weld. Quality of welds on tanks are typically done with a hydrostatic process.

Stainless steel: It's a myth you can't use it under water. Look at your prop shaft and most of the prop shafts of the boats in the marina. Stainless, right? More than likely. That said, I still don't favor stainless anchor or chain. Little monkey can sport a stainless chain and anchor with wheels, I'll stick to hot dipped galvanized and a windlass.

Regards,

Thomas

[haidan]

Originally Posted by Yachts66

Oh my, the little monkey is really going to hate me now:

Yes, you can weld aluminum to steel, it's normally done with a bimetallic strip. The most common application is boat building is to weld an aluminum dog house onto a steel deck. You weld the steel side of the bimetallic strip to the steel deck and the aluminum dog house to the aluminum side of the strip. This does not protect you from the effects of electrolysis, but it can be done. Of course, it's not inexpensive to do either. The monkey has lots of money so he won't mind the added cost. Still mixing dissimilar metals in salt water is never a good idea.

TIG is absolutely a cool process and can produce incredibly pretty welds. It's only used in specialty applications because it's also an incredibly slow process and as indicated earlier, an expensive process as well. You can also use TIG to clean up poor welds, making them much better and much prettier.

Audiogauge also referred to sometimes as sonogram is used to check the thickness of metal, not the quality of the weld. Advanced audiogauge machines can even tell you the thickness of the paint covering the metal. They are pretty handy to have if you own a steel boat and can afford one. X-rays are typically used to check for weld quality without destroying the weld. Quality of welds on tanks are typically done with a hydrostatic process.

Stainless steel: It's a myth you can't use it under water. Look at your prop shaft and most of the prop shafts of the boats in the marina. Stainless, right? More than likely. That said, I still don't favor stainless anchor or chain. Little monkey can sport a stainless chain and anchor with wheels, I'll stick to hot dipped galvanized and a windlass.

Regards,

Thomas

Ok what's with the wheels? I drag the boat to the anchor not the anchor to the boat.

[haidan]

Originally Posted by bangkaboat

SO, you've made it clear that you know nothing about welding or boatbuilding. Sounds as though you're perfect for building one of Brent's boats. LMAO!

Yep it's kinda like cheating, but it works and well, I had very little knowledge of welding or boat building when I started mine.

[haidan]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

Figured out why steel better interiors sometimes - people aren't meant to live in round things

Steel boats don't need to draw their structural strength from the internal bulkheads as plastic boats do, so one has more room to play with various different configurations for the interior furniture.

I don't know what you mean by the "round things" though, steel boats are sometimes also round.

[SaltyMonkey]

Yachts66 - yes, thanks. alum houses and steel decks - too advanced and scary for old saltyMonkey. Wasn't going to use TIG on a whole boat. Oh Mymymy no. just a few happy anchors. agree with SS myths. At one time SS anchors were recommended in cruising books. But just remember, those lovely dippy doodoos are gonna scratch easily on coral and rock, and down south more rusties for you haha. SaltyMonkey will laff then.

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by haidan

Ok what's with the wheels? I drag the boat to the anchor not the anchor to the boat.

My advanced technological design for a new anchor. I call it a robo anchor. Wheels, camera, a underwater propellant and a rudder/elevators etc. You steer it underwater where you want it and dig it in. Worried how its setting. No problem. Check on it from time to time with the camera. Want to retrieve it. No problem RoboAnchor can be undone and steered right back to the boat by remote.

Originally Posted by haidan

I don't know what you mean by the "round things" though, steel boats are sometimes also round.

Yes but rarely are the "really" round like a plasti. Might be a bit, or might be chined.

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by haidan

Yep it's kinda like cheating, but it works and well, I had very little knowledge of welding or boat building when I started mine.

I think that you'd give yourself credit for more than a couple of weekends of welding, Haidan. Now, as I recall, you bought your hull "with all steel detailing completed". That must have saved a lot of welding time.
Your father has a fab. shop, doesn't he, Haidan?

Saltymonkey,
To weld an anchor with GTAW would be a waste of time. To attempt to build an entire boat using it is ridiculous. Most people will tell you that welding is 90% practice. What they don't tell you is that it is years of practice which separate professional welders from someone who finished a course. Btw, I've seen a few different steel hulls available locally, if you're looking in the B.C. area. Check Vancouver craigslist. There was someone in Delta selling a 35' Buehler hull, for(I think) $7,000 and someone selling a 33 Mason(Monel) complete, needs interior refit, for under $5,000 at Shelter Island Marina.

[SaltyMonkey]

bangkaboat - thanks for the leads! I'd be really happy with a Buehler, and there is one locally but 44' and out of my price range. But really, because of current location, time, and day gig to pay for cruising kitty I need something more complete and ready to go. There are some awesome boats up in your woods. No doubt about it. Pazookas me off I am stuck in SF Lake Area - this is NOT a SaltyMonkey kind of sailing area friends! Even Florida would be better than this!

[Yachts66]

There is a Brent Swain boat for sale just south of you. Check want ads and Internet postings for boats for sale by owners.

Thomas

[Yachts66]

I think little monkey needs to make his robo anchor out of aluminum. He can TIG it, it will be light enough so the power consumption required for all that maneuvering and thrusting won't require a huge battery bank and if he combined it with an Aluminum chain he'd be able to show the world just how superior aluminum is, being he's convinced it's stronger than steel. What better way to demonstrate that than a complete set of aluminum ground tackle. If he would make his wheels large enough, he could roll the anchor over the bottom and conserve some energy too! Heck of an idea. Nothing beats a green anchor!

Regards,

Thomas

[SaltyMonkey]

Y66 - you must have me mixed up with someone else, I never said or indicated that alum was stronger than steel...just the opposite. You must have mixed up my intentions of that quote.

Still alum for The Robo-Anchor might make some sense and wheels ARE important on an anchor!

[Yachts66]

My hat is off to you. Your vast knowledge of welding is only exceeded by your uber vast knowledge of all things ground tackle!

I truly do stand in awe of you.

Thomas