Steel Boats and Welding

[Yachts66]

Millstb: If metal boats are your passion, check out the metal boat society which has a annual metal boat festival every year and a forum dedicated to all things metal boats.

Welcome to the Metal Boat Society

Regards,

Thomas

[Yachts66]

So Brent, why would they do that? Just trying to save every penny they could, ignorance, what? In any case, it was a really dumb thing to do.

Regards,

Thomas

[SaltyMonkey]

Thanks Brent. This is the first time I've come across any detail critique on the Horizons. On the first surface, they appeared quite well laid out. How wrong we can be.

[millstb]

Thomas ...
Thanks for the steel link ... It's kinda tough, I lived in that old H-28 wooden boat for years, I loved the way the shrouds would actually start vibrating in the wind and use the woodden hull attachment as a hugh soundboard; quite litterally lulled to sleep. But, that beautiful boat was not a suitable off shore vessel, and if I never have to strip another piece of varnished mahogony down and start over it will suit me fine. I can love all that wood work below decks.
I was looking for something to take me safely off shore in somewhat comfort and a do a decent turn of speed. I turned to steel after reading of the disasters that have befallen other folks from partially submerged containers; that and unknown reefs and rocks showing up like so many uninvited rude guests tilted my bias to steel.

That being said, I've been reading this series of posts for many days now, long enough to realize that there are some very knowledgeable people out there and then there are the group that I would call 'tire kickers'. Being a doer myself in the time that SaltMonkey has tried to learn welding I found the right boat, made an offer and am now waiting for the surveyor to get to the boat.
she's a beauty, built professionally and maintained by the original owner builder to a high standard. There were many steel boats that I passed up for reasons that have been elucidated so well in this forum.
Thanks so much for your time. It helped me make up my mind when this boat came to my attention.
I will post pictures after sale completion ...
cheers,
miller

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by millstb

Thanks so much for your time. It helped me make up my mind when this boat came to my attention.
I will post pictures after sale completion ...
cheers,
miller

awesome news! Can't wait to see her! Congrats!

[SaltyMonkey]

You know, if we could get the workflow and project management fine tuned, I bet we could churn out 30 boats a month to go head for head against the plastics in price and production. What do you think?

Swainateau 33s9 or Swainneau Olympus anyone?

[Yachts66]

Good on you Miller. Not all surveyors are created equal. NAMS guys seem pretty good, but not everyone knows about steel. Do you plan to get the hull audiogauged? I've been looking at units to buy and I've found some for less than $2k which look pretty good. When I had my Roberts done it cost me almost as much as the survey, so I figure having my own unit would pay for itself and maybe allow me to pick up a buck here and there while I'm out cruising.

Regards,

Thomas

[Yachts66]

BTW Miller, the Metal Boat Festival is August 19-22 in Port Angels, WA. It would be a great shake down cruise for your new boat. Holler if you need crew, and you get a free slip at the Festival if you show up in a Metal Boat! Such a deal. I think I know the boat you're referring to, but your right to hold your cards close. I would too. Best of luck to you.

Regards,

Thomas

[SaltyMonkey]

I just need to get a few of these:

[millstb]

Thanks Thomas and Saltmonkey for your comments.
I really did do a world wide search, of course realizing that I most likely would not make it to So. Africa or even alaska to inspect a boat; nonetheless I searched and found out what people were asking for steel; frankly I could not believe the asking price for some of the rust buckets I saw; way too many project boats out there.
I wanted something that was at least 90% of the way there for off shore, and I don't mean all the electronic goodies, just a well found hull, a decent shear, minimal but adequate safety equipment.
I feel that way too many people go out there with overloaded systems on their boat and then bemoan the fact that they can't get that furuno radar part in Bora-Bora. The KISS principal is a good starting place.
The first ocean crossing I took (not counting a Navy Destroyer) was an Atlantic crossing with an australian named Laurie Piper. I was on Ascension Island as a contractor fixing Telemetry and audio recording equipment for a satelite tracking station. Laurie showed up in his 26' wooden sloop and after we had a few drinks I asked to go with him...his reply gave me my first bit of Aussie slang. "Sure mate, buy some tucker and let's go"
Food I bought, tossed my guitar aboard and sailed 2600 miles to Fortaleza Brasil. This was 1974 and his navigating equipment consisted of compass, simple sextant, and chead radio shack receiver. We got close to Brasil with the sextant of course but when we were close he broke out the Radio shack AM receiver which has a ferrite core antenna built in along the top of the receiver. By tuning in a Fortaleza station and swinging the receiver he could effectively point in the general direction; then he waited off shore till dark cause then you could see the glow on the horizon. Brought us safely in. A grand cruise and one that fired my imagination all the way to the present day.
So, any of you arm chair sailors reading this, drop the laptop and start your adventure.


cheers,
miller

[millstb]

Thomas I have one more question for you. (actually two)
first of all I found a NAMS qualified, steel familiar surveyor. He is only using ultra- sound hull testing. Is that the same as audio gauge ? It seems so. In other words properly sounduing the hull will give you places of rust or plate degradation whether on the inside or outside of the hull. comments ?

Second; could you comment on this paragraph that was from the survey done at original launch.
" Vessel's hull was constructed of 3/16" Cor-Ten plate, sand blasted to white metal, coated with a Devoe ameron coating system consisting of inorganic zinc on the interior and above the water line, two coats of 235 Bar Rust epoxy coating and a top coat of linear polyurethane (LPU). The hull received an anti-fouling coating. The interior of the hull was coated in spray on foam prior to finishing"

This seems like an adequate job, however will the spray on foam prevent current and future inside hull plate inspection. For logistical reasons I have not been able to see the actual boat yet.

thanks to all for time and support,
miller

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by millstb

T... He is only using ultra- sound hull testing. Is that the same as audio gauge ? It seems so. In other words properly sounduing the hull will give you places of rust or plate degradation whether on the inside or outside of the hull ...

Yes.

The prefix “ultra” is from the Latin word meaning “beyond”.

I the case of sonic testing, or audio gauging, ultrasound refers to sound energy with a frequency (pitch) too high to be heard by the human ear (>20 KHz).

Most industrial ultrasonic testing is performed at frequencies between 500 KHz and 20 MHz, although frequencies down to 50 KHz and up to 200 MHz are used in some specialized situations. In general, NDT using higher frequencies will create a clearer resolution of thin materials or small flaws, and lower frequencies offer better penetration for measurement of thick samples or materials that transmit sound waves inefficiently.

[Brent Swain]

I'd want a lot more than just zinc primer inside , under the foam. I'd want at least three coats of epoxy tar on before foaming. People grossly overestimate the effectiveness of foam, which is porous and in the right conditios, can soak up water like a sponge, especially if it extends to the bilge , which should never be foamed.
When fishboats had their bilges foamed , it acted like a wick and soaked the bilge water up, until it corroded far above where it would have, had it been given a place for water to drain out of the foam. ..

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by Yachts66

So Brent, why would they do that? Just trying to save every penny they could, ignorance, what? In any case, it was a really dumb thing to do.

Regards,

Thomas

It is a combination of cheap and ignorance. The fact that they got away with it for so long and their internally corroding hulls still fetch a high price, has given them no incentive to do it properly. I've met a lot of Foulkes and horizon owners who have had to replace hull plate long before they ever would have, in fact may have never needed to do, due to this screwup . The fact it is out of sight makes all the difference.
One often hears the saying "Steel boats rust from the inside out, but there is no need to paint the inside well !" Duuuhhh!!
Professionally built often means built with an incentive to cut every corner you can, as they add up. Amateur built usualy means there is little saving on one off boats in skimping on something as basic as paint.

[SaltyMonkey]

The whole ultrasonic testing is, from my understanding, a very professional skill and it is best to hire someone with training and experience at interpreting the results.

SaltyMonkey sad...needs a boat bad