Steel vs Fiberglass

[jockster1059]

Hi Everyone,

I currently own a well built and well maintained 35' steel motor sailer, currently in the process of removing the anchor winch, which, being out of direct sight, has become quite corroded (mainly the electric motor casing). There is some surface rust around the underside of the deck in the anchor locker, but easily dealt with. Overall, I'm happy with the boat and would take it anywhere within it's capabilities and my capabilities as skipper.

Having said that, and done a lot of research and thinking, my most boat build would have to be double/triple skin diynyl/epoxy that has been done properly from the outset. It is strong, doesn't rust, shouldn't rot, shouldn't delaminate (if done properly) and still has a "wooden boat" feel about it.

So many pros and cons!

[skipperpete]

I confess to being fond of steel hulls and am acutely aware of the corrosion issues. Colvin condemned some of his designs by advocating the spray application of insulation in his hulls.
On the fibreglass issue, yes there are huge problems... balsacore was a bad idea above or below the WL. I,ve seen two larger solid GRP yachts sag around their keels, irwin and a tayana to the point of no return and similarly a Swanson 42 with a bottom so soggy she settled in the cradle on haulout never to be refloated.

[HankOnthewater]

If the original poster wants a steel go-anywhere-boat, see this ad, with keel 10 mm steel, hull 8 mm, other stuff 6 mm.
But... one needs travel to Oz to see it, it is a motorsailor, and a bit big at 55 ft.
But if the overriding wish is for a strong steel boat, such boats do exist.
https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...aker-55/296788
I have never seen this boat, do not know the owner or broker, have no interest in this boat, other than copying the link here.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

If the original poster wants a steel go-anywhere-boat, see this ad, with keel 10 mm steel, hull 8 mm, other stuff 6 mm.
But... one needs travel to Oz to see it, it is a motorsailor, and a bit big at 55 ft.
But if the overriding wish is for a strong steel boat, such boats do exist.
https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...aker-55/296788
I have never seen this boat, do not know the owner or broker, have no interest in this boat, other than copying the link here.

Yep, had spotted this one myself.
The Kelvin engine was off-putting for me, I imagine parts would be harder to source than those on a gardner.

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Curious: how do you get osmosis in a cold molded timber boat hull? Seems impossible to me.

Jim

An excellent question! The boat had pretty severe blistering when we first bought her (predominantly above the waterline) and we narrowed it down to two things:

1.) She was grounded off Australia and a very quick repair was done in SA, whereby they not only didn’t allow the core wood to dry properly first, they also left plenty of voids when applying the final glass sheathing.

2.) In Mexico she had a poor paint job; sprayed in water with bad prep and trapping residual salt spray between coats which over the years, blistered up.

Conscious 1 is more likely osmosis than 2, but meant for a long boatyard period last year drying everything out!

N

[mako]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

... see this ad, with keel 10 mm steel, hull 8 mm, other stuff 6 mm.
https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...aker-55/296788

That's a really neat boat, certainly belongs in the "Interesting Boats" thread.

[skipperpete]

It looks like Joe sent my old Spray to the beauty parlour, it almost has the same scantlings but I too would steer clear of anything powered by a Kelvin. I used to say that Adams never designed a boat that wouldn’t sail well….. but not any more.

[KelseyB]

I grew up on wooden and fiberglass boats, and now own a steel boat that I refit several years ago. Here are my main pros and cons for steel:

Pros:
-Steel boats don't rot, blister, get soft spots, get stress cracks, etc.
-No keel bolts
-Hull is not flammable
-You can drill holes, add accessories, etc just about anywhere (especially if you can weld or know someone who can)
-No leaks, unless you have a leaky hatch or something, but that's very easy to fix
-You can run aground just about as much as you'd like, or you can hit the dock at full speed and the only damage will be your reputation at the marina
-Everything is stronger, even things you may not think of - in my case, my pulpits and rigging are welded to the deck (no backing plates necessary), and my rudder and prop guard are also steel
-Because most steel boats have hard chines, they're very stable
-No ice damage (within reason); in fact you can likely break a small amount of ice
-You can have bigger windows, because the hull flexes less
-You can get magnetic cupholders

Cons:
-Steel boats rust, but rust is easily remedied if you catch it in time
-You'll break a lot of drill bits (Christmas tree bits help a lot; carbide bits are the next best option)
-You'll spend a LOT of money on paint, and the paint you want may only be available from shipyard suppliers; you'll also spend a lot of time sanding
-You'll eat a lot of docklines - I have yet to find a chafe gear that lasts more than a year
-In hot weather, the cabin is hotter; but painting with light colors helps a lot
-Insurance is hard to find (so are surveyors)
-There are far fewer resources/expert advice out there, and the materials you need to do a job may not be at West Marine
-Marinas sometimes aren't the friendliest to steel boats (and the type of work required to maintain them)
-Standard emergency leak repairs (underwater-curing epoxy patches, wood plugs, etc) may not work if you do find yourself with a real below-the-waterline leak
-Dissimilar metals is a real concern (as well as all varieties of corrosion) - you have to use stainless fasteners for anything going through the deck, not bronze or anything else; zincs are a big deal
-Because most steel boats are full-keeled, they have big turning radiuses and can be more challenging to dock
-There may be more vibration from the engine radiating around the hull - but this can be (mostly) remedied with softer engine mounts

Neutrals:
-A steel boat doesn't have to be slower/heavier than a fiberglass boat; my 30-foot steel boat displaces the exact same as a pre-2000s Catalina 30
-You need a compass that can be adjusted to compensate for the magnetism of the boat, and then learn to swing it yourself or hire someone to swing it for you
-Steel boats are usually full-keeled - that can be a pro or con depending on your preference
-Steel boats are unique - on the one hand, it can be a great conversation starter and point of pride; on the other hand, if you're looking for the answer to a question about your boat, you may be the leading expert (I frequently google questions and my own posts come up as the top result, to my frustration)

[Threemonkeys]

Originally Posted by Icarus

I build and owned and sailed three steel Van de Stadt yachts 36, 40, 48...
These are excellent designs and sail well..
Advantages, incredibly strong, running aground you might get a dent but the don't brake up like glass or wood.
Chain plates are welded on, ballast can be encapsulated, through hull fittings are welded in, engine bearers are simple, strong and easy to change ..
Repairs are easy
Epoxy paint systems are excellent

Disadvantage
Weight...
Ongoing maintenance, especially around the deck area.
Electrolysis/galvanic corrosion...is a big one and a well designed electric system is a must.
The hull should be build without fore and aft stringers...as the can trap water...limber holes...
Deck and hull needs to be insulated from heat and noise.

Fiber glass
Less cosmetic maintenance on hull and deck..no corrosion...
Not as noisy as metal boats
Choice of used boat market a lot bigger.

A grounding can certainly fatally damage the under water body...
Major repairs are a lot more complicated..
Prone to ANNOYING LEAKS, windows, chain plates, hand rails, stounchions, cap rails, deck joints, especially older boats..Ask me how I know..I work as a boat builder.
Ballast keel repairs...keel bolts, sometimes they can't be extracted.
Possible OSMOSIS and depending of the damage done can be very expensive to repair properly...time consuming...gelcoat stripping.

After reading this I searched for Van De Stadts. I think there were about ten for sale but one of them was one of the most beautiful yachts I'd ever seen. But it was only 44 feet. I'm looking for the 50' to 60' range. I guess that's the secret sauce when trying to find the "right one"....there are no perfect boats....only trade-offs. Thank you for that recommendation

[Threemonkeys]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

If the original poster wants a steel go-anywhere-boat, see this ad, with keel 10 mm steel, hull 8 mm, other stuff 6 mm.
But... one needs travel to Oz to see it, it is a motorsailor, and a bit big at 55 ft.
But if the overriding wish is for a strong steel boat, such boats do exist.
https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...aker-55/296788
I have never seen this boat, do not know the owner or broker, have no interest in this boat, other than copying the link here.

I actually like this boat and could see myself in it. But I suspect it's more of a motor'er than a sailer given the keel. I'm certainly no expert though. I do want to thank you for the website. I've never heard of it until now

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Threemonkeys

After reading this I searched for Van De Stadts. I think there were about ten for sale but one of them was one of the most beautiful yachts I'd ever seen. But it was only 44 feet. I'm looking for the 50' to 60' range. I guess that's the secret sauce when trying to find the "right one"....there are no perfect boats....only trade-offs. Thank you for that recommendation

Also look for https://bestevaer.com/ boats usually built by https://kmyachtbuilders.com/. These are usually in aluminum but I think there might have been some older boats in steel.

There are other Dutch built boats that are steel like Koopmans and Van De Stadts.

Later,
Dan

[Cloroxbottle]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

so I bought a FG boat now I live in fear of an electrical fault immoliating me.

Having lost out previous fiberglass boat to a fire, let me add that this is a very serious concern.

Fiberglass boats burn rather well, and it is likely that the fire is going to start somewhere out of sight. You will be alerted by the smell or sight of smoke at a point where the fire is already established to the point that fighting it successfully with handheld extinguishers won't be possible.

In our case, even with fireboats responding quickly the interior was blackened with soot and a rather significant 2 foot by 4 foot hole was burned in the deck compromising everything from the starboard forward cockpit winch to the backstay. Everything in the starboard lockers and head was completely destroyed. All this from start to finish took about an hour at most.

What's worse, our aft cockpit design had an aft cabin with portlights for ventilation but no hatch since it was mostly under the cockpit. The only human sized exit was into the salon. Had we been sleeping in there we might not have made it out.

[Threemonkeys]

Originally Posted by Cloroxbottle

Having lost out previous fiberglass boat to a fire, let me add that this is a very serious concern.

Fiberglass boats burn rather well, and it is likely that the fire is going to start somewhere out of sight. You will be alerted by the smell or sight of smoke at a point where the fire is already established to the point that fighting it successfully with handheld extinguishers won't be possible.

In our case, even with fireboats responding quickly the interior was blackened with soot and a rather significant 2 foot by 4 foot hole was burned in the deck compromising everything from the starboard forward cockpit winch to the backstay. Everything in the starboard lockers and head was completely destroyed. All this from start to finish took about an hour at most.

What's worse, our aft cockpit design had an aft cabin with portlights for ventilation but no hatch since it was mostly under the cockpit. The only human sized exit was into the salon. Had we been sleeping in there we might not have made it out.

Sorry to hear about your boat. Fire is devastating and I'm glad you weren't on it. Out of curiosity, would you go steel for your next boat?

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Threemonkeys

Sorry to hear about your boat. Fire is devastating and I'm glad you weren't on it. Out of curiosity, would you go steel for your next boat?

Plenty of steel boats, or at least, insulation and interiors have burnt out over the years.

[RaymondR]

I have a friend who is into the third year of an internal refit of his steel boat after a fire, you can't refit a pile of ashes.

If you don't let it rust your steel boat will still be around in a thousand years time as as sound as the day it was built.