Take delivery in Europe or USA

[VIPJets]

New here so please be gentle. :-) We are seriously looking at buying a new boat 50 to 60 foot in range and taking delivery in Europe due to a significant monetary Arbitrage situation. Any thoughts or experiences including the good, the bad, the ugly about taking delivery in Europe and then back to the USA across the Atlantic or having it shipped via seven star or dockwise or similar shipping outfit? Appreciate any comments or constructive feedback.

[atoll]

there was a member that took delivery of a new catamaran in march in france but due to lockdown was unable to get to or move the boat untill july.
europe looks like it will be tied up with coming new high rates of infection untill at least the spring .
might be better to look for something closer to home unless you can afford to wait if there are inevitable new restrictions imposed.
even surveyors are unlikely to travel to view yachts if they have to quarantine for 2 weeks,delivery crew will be under similar restrictions.

[VIPJets]

Thanks. Looking to take delivery next June so hopefully this whole mess will clear up by then.

[psk125]

Do you speak the language of the delivery country? Something will need fixing and you need to be able to explain what it is and what needs to be done. Doing this in English at an American yard can be a frustrating wild-goose chase, so imagine how much fun it could be in Greek, Dutch, Finnish or Czech! Setting up transport can also be a fraught experience, along with preparing for a transatlantic voyage, if you go that route. Bon voyage!

[Stewie12]

Having it shipped will save a lot of wear and tear all round.

[sailingforfun]

I have done it twice from both Lagoon factories for the exact reasons you mention. After some sailing in Europe we joined the ARC in November to sail across the Atlantic. Great experience and easy downwind sail.

First time (2015) was from Lagoon's factory in Les Sables d'Olonne and this year (2020) from their factory in Bordeaux. Each time it was very easy. All European's speak English (to varying degrees) as a second language. I never found the language to be a barrier.

I used OFX to convert dollars to euros at better exchange rates than my Bank was offering to pay for the boat.

Regarding Covid, we took delivery this year in February and then had to return to the US pre-Covid and got stuck in the US. We missed this entire summer sailing in the Med. We're still in the US and plan on returning next March.

I highly recommend taking delivery in Europe if you have the time.

[Cpt Mark]

What about VAT? Are you buying the boat with or without paying the VAT? Assume you take delivery in June and Covid is not an issue. Would you then cruise Europe for a while before bringing the boat back? If so, then you'd need to figure out what those ramifications are or are not re VAT.

You may want to pay VAT. I'm not up on the latest rules so do your research. If you plan to ever sell the boat in Europe having paid VAT can be a big deal.

Shipping the boat definitely less wear and tear. Bringing it back yourself, definitely more fun. Hiring a delivery crew. Make sure you find the right one. I had a client lined up to bring his boat back from HI to CA. He found another guy, cheaper, in a bar in HI. His broker told him not to do that and to use me. He opted for the other guy. His engine was blown 5 days out, they were on the last set of sails and the boat was so damaged on the inside and outside that it became a donation.

[sailingforfun]

I bought without paying VAT. You have 90 days to depart Europe to avoid VAT. You need to declare at purchase you will be exporting the boat and complete the necessary paperwork. Exporting the Boat means going to a non-EU country.

We chose to check into Gibraltar for 3 days. Get your enter exit stamps and then you can sail Europe for 18 months with no VAT payable.

You should not attempt to cross the Atlantic until after the hurricane (June 1 - Nov 30) season. The ARC departs Gran Canaria at the end of November every year. So spend time enjoying the Med until then.

Shipping a boat is not without its hazards. I had a friend ship his brand new cat from Europe to US only to have the dock crane drop the boat during offloading and totaled it. There was insurance, but he had to get back in line for a new cat which delayed delivery another year.

[Wckoek]

If one were to have it shipped would there be specialist or broker involve that can make things easier?

[Snore]

Originally Posted by VIPJets

New here so please be gentle. :-) We are seriously looking at buying a new boat 50 to 60 foot in range and taking delivery in Europe due to a significant monetary Arbitrage situation. Any thoughts or experiences including the good, the bad, the ugly about taking delivery in Europe and then back to the USA across the Atlantic or having it shipped via seven star or dockwise or similar shipping outfit? Appreciate any comments or constructive feedback.

From the perspective of a delivery guy, this depends on a lot. First, is quarantine (Q). If I have to do 2-weeks Q before I go, that is a customer responsibility.

As your CF name is VIP jets, if the customer has an arrangement where we fly in private, are transferred to the boat AND the boat is provisioned to my specs, AND the boat has been shook down and debugged, then we would simply head out- weather permitting. At the worst we hold doing a Q on the boat until we catch a window. Once again, something that needs to be pre-arranged.

IF the US lets us back in, AND if they use the same rules as last time where our passage counted towards our Q, no issues as we will have had a de facto Q for 30 days. If there was an additional Q, that would be a customer expense.

Add to that wear on the vessel. Yes I know, "she is brand new", but think of it this way. A well used recreational vessel is sailed 5-6 hours a week, or 20-24 hours a month. Lets say 24 hours a month X 12 months for a total of 288 hours per year or 12 non-stop days. A transatlantic passage will run in the area of 30 days, or put about 2.5 years of wear on the vessel.

For all of this to work, the person doing the delivery should be consulting during the purchasing process. Things like AIS, solar, wind generators, battery size, etc are important decisions in a transatlantic passage.

I will defer to others to do a cost-benefit analysis of sailing her versus putting her as deck cargo.

But if you want her sailed, please check my profile.

[barnakiel]

June is normally not sailed EU to US.


Wrong weather season.



b.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Stewie12

Having it shipped will save a lot of wear and tear all round.

Currently working on an insurance fight over $200k damages by saving that wear and tear.

[David B]

Originally Posted by VIPJets

New here so please be gentle. :-) We are seriously looking at buying a new boat 50 to 60 foot in range and taking delivery in Europe due to a significant monetary Arbitrage situation. Any thoughts or experiences including the good, the bad, the ugly about taking delivery in Europe and then back to the USA across the Atlantic or having it shipped via seven star or dockwise or similar shipping outfit? Appreciate any comments or constructive feedback.

We took delivery of a new boat in France in 2012. It all went well, and so far we are staying in the Med - far too much to see and experience over there.

As to getting things done, we have found it no problem at all. In France, Spain, Malta, Italy, Sicily, Corfu, Tunisia, Albania, Croatia, Montenegro etc, the people are friendly and helpful. Language is no issue as English is the universal language, and so far we have always found someone who if not fluent, at least speaks enough, plus picking up foreign languages - at least enough for basic greetings etc, is all part of the interest in travel.

I would encourage you to explore the Med before heading off across the Atlantic - you may find you want to stay a while. On that, you can keep your boat in the EU for 18 months (24 if you put it in bond) before having to either pay VAT, or export to a non EU country for a few days, before being able to re-enter the EU for another 18/24 months.
There are still a few non-EU countries there, that this is no big deal.

Then there is you. Shengen countries permit you to stay 90 days in any 180 days, before you must leave. However, there are enough non-Shengen countries there that this should also not be a problem.

I hope that helps.

David

[Barra]

Don't really think arbitrage is the right word for your plans. Arbitrage is risk free and neither sailing her back not shipping her is risk free as has been mentioned now.

Once All the financial and real risks are factored in the saving isn't actually that much and if you are unlucky could cost quite a bit more.

That said if you plan to do a loop of the med before sailing back to the US then it's still a highly recommended way to go. Assuming covid is settling down next summer of course ie that there is a widely available vaccine which is no given.

[Popaul]

Advantage Taking delivery at sellers point gives you better service for guarantee works and, if time allows, you can sail Europe during sommer time either Med via Gibraltar (as mentioned before) or N via channel islands to North or Irish Sea and get familiarized with your new yacht. Be in the Canaries end Oct and take the atlantic crossing as from end Nov
If you need assistance for this part there are plenty of experienced guys interested.
Good luck with you new yacht.