Talk me out of a Tayana 52

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Katapult Mike

I also like the Nordic 44 a lot as well, for a data point, but it's quite a bit smaller and I am afraid it will come up short in the "condo in the water" criteria for my wife. Neither of these boats are very common and not readily available for charter (I am open to any invitations!) so I would like to hear about other options. I am open to a somewhat smaller (than 50 feet) boat, shorter deeper keel / more "modern" hull shape and maybe a bit taller rig. Not too into full keels and canoe sterns. Like to hear everyone's opinion.

I have owned a Nordic 44 for 30 years now. Or does it own me? I have sailed it over 130,000 miles, including a circumnavigation.

Unfortunately they only built 39 of them before the luxury tax put then out of business in 1991. They are getting pretty old and any one that you might find on the market may require a lot of TLC.

I have soloed it a few thousand miles. It is about the biggest boat that I would want to handle short handed. Most of the time one person could handle it but when the S**t hits the fan it is a lot of boat to handle. Mine is the SE version, actually the first SE. It was designed for the guy I bought the boat from. For a cruising couple I feel this is plenty of room - you shouldn't need two heads for a couple. All of the '44s were semi custom built and the interiors are often a little different. Each customer had their own ideas.

Buying a boat with teak decks from that era may be a can of worms. Hundreds of screw holes to hold down the teak means deck leaks into the core than could mean very serious damage to the deck. You mentioned black iron tanks. There are a lot of other pitfalls in an older boat. If you are not a DIY person the cost of labor is a deal killer. For many jobs the labor far exceeds the materials costs.

When I lived aboard it was easy to keep up with maintenance. Not that I am a dirt dweller (live in a house) it is a lot harder.

[Charlie]

Mike:

I have a requirement when looking at boats. I need to be able to lift and move the sails by myself. That limits me to about 45'. I am guessing that the size will go down as I get older. The amount of upkeep on a 50' boat is enormous. Especially if you are inheriting other people's deferred maintenance. So on a Tanaya 52 pick the 150% genoa out of stowage up on to the deck and then raise the sail. It is a lot of work. Between sail handling and the expense of repairs I would give some serious thought to whether the T52 is the boat for you.

[Emmalina]

Can't say I feel our boat is big as the wife is 47kg and can do everything pretty easy except the main that takes her a while. But we have a ketch so it does make life easier !

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari

52ft boat is a big boat for one or two retirees. Do you really need it that big?

Is it?

The hassles of sailing (docking mooring etc)

Big boats are generally comfortable enough that they can carry a decent tender and anchor out.
Money saved.

& cost of management and repairs increases exponentially to length

Yep, but money saved on not needing a marina far offsets additional maintenance costs.
Al least it does for us.

(and this is not limited to ocean passages with crew - which is yet another hassle.)

Who says you need additional crew?
70ft trimarabs have happily hurtled around the world single handed.

[Orin]

I can comment some on Bob Perry’s boats - they’re fantastic, as a general rule. I can also comment on boat sizing with the wife. I’ve found what works best is to provide her with choices and time. If she has the patience for it. First take her on the whole lot of boats - modern production to museum relics if you can.

After she has a feel for boats, and you’ve agreed that you a purchasing one - say you’ve got a list of boats to look at before making up your mind - and just let her choose. Granted the list can all be Bob Perry designed boats between 35-50’ in your price range or whatever will satisfy you. That’s how I did it. Now, my wife bears the final responsibility of having chose our boat, and me of vetting it. She cannot complain and neither can I.

As far as a 52’ boat, the old rule of thumb I had heard from cruisers who came before me, and were not equipped with such luxuries as bow thrusters is that a 42’ boat is about the most a single man can manage to dock alone.

If it we’re only myself and my wife sailing or cruising together we would have the following requirements: Room to sleep, shower, and eat. A NICE galley, well appointed with storage and refrigeration, and finally enough engineering and storage space for all of our needs (water makers, diesel water heater, etc). After evaluating each boat for these factors we would likely hover around the smallest boat that could comfortably do all of that for us. Likely 28-32’.

Being that we wouldn’t be paying for extra boat, extra bottom paint, extra large engines with more fuel needs, larger winches and all the rest that came with a larger boat - we would have a LOT more money for fun stuff ashore, a better quality, better equipped, newer boat. Whatever that means to you. I’d sooner spend $50k on an extremely good example of a smaller boat and have $100k to spend on everything from SCUBA gear to paid tours of unique places. The remaining money would go much further on every aspect of maintenance and upkeep. Smaller boats, with smaller sails will be much easier for you or your wife to handle.

There are of course many justifications as to why someone might need a larger boat, large families, many overnight guests, chartered tours... whatever the case may be. For me, in my position, if I have extra space it better be making me money.

[Emmalina]

Originally Posted by Orin

I can comment some on Bob Perry’s boats - they’re fantastic, as a general rule. I can also comment on boat sizing with the wife. I’ve found what works best is to provide her with choices and time. If she has the patience for it. First take her on the whole lot of boats - modern production to museum relics if you can.

After she has a feel for boats, and you’ve agreed that you a purchasing one - say you’ve got a list of boats to look at before making up your mind - and just let her choose. Granted the list can all be Bob Perry designed boats between 35-50’ in your price range or whatever will satisfy you. That’s how I did it. Now, my wife bears the final responsibility of having chose our boat, and me of vetting it. She cannot complain and neither can I.

As far as a 52’ boat, the old rule of thumb I had heard from cruisers who came before me, and were not equipped with such luxuries as bow thrusters is that a 42’ boat is about the most a single man can manage to dock alone.

If it we’re only myself and my wife sailing or cruising together we would have the following requirements: Room to sleep, shower, and eat. A NICE galley, well appointed with storage and refrigeration, and finally enough engineering and storage space for all of our needs (water makers, diesel water heater, etc). After evaluating each boat for these factors we would likely hover around the smallest boat that could comfortably do all of that for us. Likely 28-32’.

Being that we wouldn’t be paying for extra boat, extra bottom paint, extra large engines with more fuel needs, larger winches and all the rest that came with a larger boat - we would have a LOT more money for fun stuff ashore, a better quality, better equipped, newer boat. Whatever that means to you. I’d sooner spend $50k on an extremely good example of a smaller boat and have $100k to spend on everything from SCUBA gear to paid tours of unique places. The remaining money would go much further on every aspect of maintenance and upkeep. Smaller boats, with smaller sails will be much easier for you or your wife to handle.

There are of course many justifications as to why someone might need a larger boat, large families, many overnight guests, chartered tours... whatever the case may be. For me, in my position, if I have extra space it better be making me money.

Its nice to have extra space as for mooring we are nearer 58' with davits and both the wife and I have never had a problem going into a marina not that we do it much. Its all about your feel for the boat and as for bow thrusters

[Zzmeyer]

The Tayana 52 has beautiful lines. Loving your boat is a first priority. Based on 49 years of marriage and 45 years of boat ownership 52 won't change your wife's mind that much. Better look at a chateau in southern France. Go for it.

[Katapult Mike]

Originally Posted by Zzmeyer

Better look at a chateau in southern France. Go for it.

Funny you should mention that. Wife has already vetoed the chateau in France, so I guess she's gonna have to live with a boat......

......note, I did NOT say live ON a boat.......

[Orin]

Originally Posted by Emmalina

Its nice to have extra space as for mooring we are nearer 58' with davits and both the wife and I have never had a problem going into a marina not that we do it much. Its all about your feel for the boat and as for bow thrusters

Hell, I’ve had issue getting into a slip single handing my old C&C 30MKI when I still had that beautifully beat up boat. Granted hanging off the back trying to reverse her in with an outboard in a fresh breeze might not be the standard to which cruising boats are expected to perform.

Recently lost reverse mooring a 35’ at a decent clip down a narrow fairway with a full keel boat. There was no issue in taking her into the slip without damage, but certainly having a spare hand there made a huge bit of difference.

I know there are ways to dramatically improve docking all the way from throwing a line around a cleat from the cockpit and letting an engine hold you against the dock up to a boat that will dock itself.

For myself, the bottom line is how long will I have to leave the helm to do anything forward - from clearing a fouled line to mooring. It’s really impossible for me to relay my experiences in anything short of a book - as I am sure is common here.

A short story if I may:

Running over the house walls and stepping over the cabin port lights to reach the near vertical surface of the fore peak in order to clear the fouled jib sheet, causing the jib to be back winded - I did not wish my route had been a foot shorter, though I was glad it was not longer. I really wished for an extra couple pounds in the keel. I hooked my front knuckles around the jib sheet, keeping my thumb clear, and yanked as hard as I could as the boat hove upward against the rising seas and a lull in the gusts easing the sheet. The sheet flew clear of the forward anchor cleat, and the boat coming down into the trough, pressure mounted as the sheet had hung up on the forward hatch. I watched, with comforting hand holds and foot grips in mild despair as the sheet tensed under the next gust and flung the fore hatch clear. As I saw it hit the water, I was already working my way to the cockpit where the tiller was lashed a fair bit to windward. I eased the main sheet, unleashed the tiller and took precarious control of the Bristol 28. It was too late for a change of course, and inexperienced as I was, too dangerous to reef the main. I furled the jib, and found that despite good speed, I lacked the pointing ability to tack. The waves grew higher and the winds stronger. Under main alone and beating into the choppy waves I was unable to cross the wind and tack. The waves simply took all of the momentum out of the light vessel and threw the bow back around. I fired up the iron sails hoping that the oil would still flow well given the extreme inclinations. It worked, but I kept it at an idle except to tack, shutting it down for longer tacks still unsure of its ability to pick up fuel and oil. The last thing I wanted was to worry about how to bleed a Diesel engine to restart it in these conditions with precious little leeway. Well, as it turns out, the starter was on its last legs. The engine would not start again. I tried and tried to tack. I would be forced to let out the headsail to try for some more speed and better pointing ability. As I did waves came pouring hundreds of gallons onto the headsail. I was afraid that the headsail would be weighed down and either burst or lay the boat hard over from the weight of the water crashing onto it with each wave. Nevertheless I was able to tack and fuel the jib. I found cover behind a small, but rather tall island. I lowered the main. I was adrift with land in all directions beyond this island. I went down below and found a spanner. I put my all into beating the starter motor with the adjustable wrench trying to knock some carbon off internally and denying it quite badly in the process. With the starter and engine somewhat cooled off, I gave another push on the round rubbery button and the engine fired up hesitantly. The single cylinder ferryman diesel pushed the boat well, and into the Marina. It was a short, but incredibly stressful sail that felt like it lasted minutes and hours at the same time. An impression that will be with me for a long time.... but the day was not over. I ran the boat in circles, eventually hailing my friend on the cell to grab a line as I came in. Despite the fact that there were two of us, it took all we had to secure the boat against the finger, we got the bow in ok. The stern we barely cleated off just before it hit the adjacent boat, we ended up having to use the jib sheet winches to pull the mooring line in so I could get the stern of the boat in. All safe and well. The next day the boat had a piece of cardboard and a tarp for a forward hatch. It was at that moment, I decided my next boat would not behave the same way. As best as I can describe it, after a couple glasses of wine, my impression of the Bristol 28 I ended up giving away for a 6-pack. I knew enough about sailboats to know it didn’t match my style or needs, and I wanted it gone - but to someone who might care for it.

Anyway, for the benefit of those who have not developed such peculiarities about their boat preferences - I hope this goes some way to describe why someone may be super particular about having near vertical house walls (when the boats level anyway) or shine a light on why someone might choose a boat with less windage.... or why they might have REALLY weird habits like tying a line front the fore peak to the mast above the boom (to clear lines high, and provide a nice handgrip).

I am not trying to distract from a 52’ boat, just that, I personally would try to accomplish the same with less boat.... because of my particular peculiarisms. All of that being said. Looking at the Tayana 52’ seriously for a moment. I would trust a boat of that design, provided a quality build in any weather as long as I could count on one extra person along for the entire ride with me. Which means me+2 trustworthy people, as you never know when someone is going to be incapacitated or otherwise predisposed. For fair weather sailing it’s a totally moot point. A tayana 52 will have more storage (Thank Bob!) but less overall volume than a 52’ Jeaneau or Bene. The Production boats will be newer and faster as well for the same cost if you really shop around. It’s very hard to talk someone with hard set peculiarisms down, but I can say a few things. 1) Most likely if you are sailing in unforgiving weather you picked the wrong season. 2) Sailing in unforgiving weather(probably) will make your wife like boats less no matter the style. Therefore making your wife unhappy with your boat is a function of route planning and timing, not boat selection if talking of fair weather cruising - or at best some mix of the two.
If you are looking for a floating condo, perhaps better choices lie in something with larger bunks, but less storage? More interior volume, with accompanying freeboard? More complex comforts at the cost of reliability? Convince yourself of the compromises, and get your wife excited about some part of it.

I have done a lot of stupid things though that weigh all to heavily on my opinion though.

I still have a lot to learn, my opinion is just that. No gospel. Hopefully a fun read for you at least.

I’ll freely admit skill, experience, and tricks learned along the way are more important than the boat... and the moments are worth it all.

[Ericson38]

We looked at a couple of Tayana 48s before we got the Taswell 49. The T52 is a great looking boat under sail. Our headsail weighs about 120 lbs. in the bag (120%), as we have a cutter rig. The T52 headsail has got to weight 150-170 lbs. since our mast is only 62 (air draft) for Caribbean, while the west coast T52 is going to have at least 5 more feet of air draft. Check the operation of the Forespar Mast Roller main really carefully. We are getting the lower bearing rebuilt in our 1991 vintage Forespar mast (mast stripped and repainted).

In the T48 we saw ( the 1992 model) the chain plates were not inspectable without woodwork, and the bilge had a fuel spell as did the cabin sole.

This T52 was sold same time we bought out Taswell 49. It was docked right next to us for about 3 months in Virginia.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE


If some of those large items can be inspected (as well as ordinary things that the eye can see like the deck), then get negotiated price and a sea trial.

We know of a couple (Doctors) in their 70s that sail their T52 all over the Chesapeake.

You need a bow thruster and some head sets so you and the wife can talk when docking and undocking.

https://sailingmagazine.net/article-1419-tayana-52.html

[Liberta T48]

As the very content owner of Libertá, a 2000 Tayana 48 (#59) cutter rigged center cockpit who is also a contributor to the Tayana Owners Group...I'm not gonna talk you out of anything. What I can tell you is I am a #SoloSailor who moved up from a Freedom 35 sloop a year ago and have had little difficulty adjusting to the size, weight and rig. It is true that as you move up in size, everything costs exponentially more, so you will have to plan for that. I am not familiar with the 52 layout, but I can attest that the 48 has plenty of room for a couple who will be living aboard for extended periods. I double handed her after purchase From Tampa Bay to Nantucket last June - aprox 1400nm in total, mostly offshore until NC, then ICW to Norfolk then out again. It was a great passage that felt like graduate school, thanks to the experienced delivery captain who was my partner in crime. In the end, as others have said, its up to what you are looking for and your comfort level. Good luck!

[SailorMark]

Mike,

I shall refrain from commenting directly upon your post, as I believe others have responded in a rather complete manner to your specific questions.

I write to you this morning, as a full-time vessel Training Captain, that you and your wife should NOT worry about a 50+ foot LOA vessel being "too big." I frequently train new vessel owners on boats this size & larger; it is all finesse, good low speed control, and communication. (One should NEVER have to physically "fend off" a 30,000# boat - look into using a "roving fender.")

Invest in a set of Eartec (or similar) wireless, hands-free head sets - and spend no less than three days' time training with a qualified captain of your choice aboard your new vessel

[Capdave360]

The strongest argument against the T52 is the lack of a sugarscoop/swim platform. I would never, ever, never go tropical cruising without a swim platform - It's a huge lifestyle upgrade for the tropics. And it can also be really helpful getting in and out of the dinghy, though not always better than a side ladder.

That Nordic 46 looks like a way nicer boat than the T52.....if photos can be believed....

On size - out in the real world there is an effect of absolute scale. On most cruising routes the vast majority, like 99%, of conditions are <30 knots, <10'. On a 30-35' boat at or near that top end is pretty nautical, and going to weather in open ocean usually too hard or impossible. Once you get in the 50' vicinity you can make progress to weather, and if you can crack the sheets it can be a great sail.

Further on size - you must absolutely rid yourself of any idea of manhandling your boat. If the deck hardware, lines, and winches are well laid out and properly designed a 50'+ boat is as easy to sail as a 25' boat - easier actually, since it's a more stable working platform. Ditto for docking; learn to use spring lines and prop walk, no problem. Bow thrusters are nice too.

If you are exerting more than about 40lbs of force on anything then you need to stop and rethink it. Make the boat do the work.

One final thought - if your wife really wants a condo, consider a catamaran. Might bust your budget, but.....Check out an old Lagoon 440 maybe. They sail sort of like a piano, but the WAF (wife appreciation factor) is high.

[Ericson38]

Originally Posted by Capdave360

The strongest argument against the T52 is the lack of a sugarscoop/swim platform. I would never, ever, never go tropical cruising without a swim platform - It's a huge lifestyle upgrade for the tropics. And it can also be really helpful getting in and out of the dinghy, though not always better than a side ladder.

That Nordic 46 looks like a way nicer boat than the T52.....if photos can be believed....

On size - out in the real world there is an effect of absolute scale. On most cruising routes the vast majority, like 99%, of conditions are <30 knots, <10'. On a 30-35' boat at or near that top end is pretty nautical, and going to weather in open ocean usually too hard or impossible. Once you get in the 50' vicinity you can make progress to weather, and if you can crack the sheets it can be a great sail.

Further on size - you must absolutely rid yourself of any idea of manhandling your boat. If the deck hardware, lines, and winches are well laid out and properly designed a 50'+ boat is as easy to sail as a 25' boat - easier actually, since it's a more stable working platform. Ditto for docking; learn to use spring lines and prop walk, no problem. Bow thrusters are nice too.

If you are exerting more than about 40lbs of force on anything then you need to stop and rethink it. Make the boat do the work.

One final thought - if your wife really wants a condo, consider a catamaran. Might bust your budget, but.....Check out an old Lagoon 440 maybe. They sail sort of like a piano, but the WAF (wife appreciation factor) is high.

The 2001 T52 next to us in Virginia had a built in swim step (red hull-'Coba').

[Visarend]

Or... take your wife to Italy, in Venice: a refittedOyster 55. Definitely a perfect location to start your round the world trip (Mediterranean, Greece at hand), and a palatial boat. https://oysteryachts.com/sailing-yachts-for-sale/icenic


Disclaimer: not at all connected with this boat/broker