Tallships. Which one?

[Woodland Hills]

Just another dreamer jerking around and wasting our time. If the OP was serious there would be discussion of a budget both for purchase and for fitting out. There would also be hard numbers on annual expenses. Dollars to doughnuts the OP has yet to get insurance quotes either.

Does he have any idea of the number of crew and their salaries? Has the OP done any actual research or is that what he expects us to do for him?

[Don C L]

All dreams have to start somewhere.

[Tonali99]

Originally Posted by Jackofall

Sorry, just had a thought regarding cannons. Could possibly open up the red sea route to get beans from Ethiopia. Third most expensive behind Blue Mountain Jamacia and Kona from Hawaii.

Sure, why not?? Big cannon go boom! Scare mean pirates away.
Here, someone hold my beer. It was nice knowing you. Lol

I had a replica British 32 pounder. Much, much smaller of course.
Followed the tradition of the salute entering port.
Got a lot of cheers and waves.
Not sure how well it'd go over now.

p.s.pirates are much better armed now a days.

[barnakiel]

One detail: "100$ coffee". This is a very very niche product. Easy to spot on a shelf, difficult to sell in reasonable amounts. DISREGARD


Also, both 100$ coffee and 5$ coffee are the same coffee. The 95$ margin belongs to the one who markets and sells it, not to you. Ask any farmer when in doubt.


b.

[barnakiel]

Another detail: Facebook, Insta and Twitter.


Are your clients on it? Do you have their #s and @s ???


Use of targeted campaigns (think of Donald Trump and Cambridge Analytica) is $$$.


It will only work if it is targeted and very well targeted - you do not want to talk to everybody out there. This is easy, and known to be perfectly ineffective.


Ask people who are trying to sell Rocnas, Highfields and Thunderstorm detectors at CF.


Along the same lines - imagine how effective is a full side add in a glossy coffee lovers monthly. It goes right into the face of those who drink your coffee.


Do not expect to pay less for Facebook, Insta or Twitter adds of the same grade / effectiveness.


In fact, it is very easy to throw money into all sorts of VERY INEFFICIENT social media campaigns.


b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Just another dreamer jerking around and wasting our time. If the OP was serious there would be discussion of a budget both for purchase and for fitting out. There would also be hard numbers on annual expenses. Dollars to doughnuts the OP has yet to get insurance quotes either.

Does he have any idea of the number of crew and their salaries? Has the OP done any actual research or is that what he expects us to do for him?

I believe I have heard the same thing said about Gates, Musk and Bezos?



Perhaps OP is just fishing for good ideas that add to his or her already existing plan?



If I had hard numbers on annual expenses and numbers, I would not publish them at CF. Why see my possibly good idea stolen by social media cruisers?



barnakiel

[billgewater]

Gee, I've never seen such an input from the readers!
But here is my bit. Would you rather sail/travel on a small ship (sail or otherwise) or go on a large cattle style cruise ship? On my last 12 day cruise, nearly every one on board caught influenza. Casino-like foyers. Never again.

There just might be a market out there for healthy retirees to pay for the experience as an alternative to cruise ship travel (which can be stunningly boring). I understand that most of the cruise liners are currently not attracting clientele for obvious reasons.

So along with an environmentally proactive sailboat (OK, maybe an engine for port maneuvers), virus free (pre quarantining conditions applied) environment, the ability to enter places large shipping can't access, the offer of a great experience unobtainable elsewhere; you may be onto something. I bet there is a market out there somewhere. It's a big world.

An example (for the naysayers to shoot down).:- carry donated materials from (say) California to some remote Pacific Islanders. Stay at a couple of islands and use the retirees skills to teach, build, assist, spend money locally etc. i.e. some benevolence. Ship back something the islanders could sell back in California? I think some people would be very keen to be involved.

But to simply compete against highly efficient conventional transport/cargo shipping in their closed shop environment may be seriously silly.

In these circumstances, it will be the lateral thinkers that lead the way.

[Knotical]

To the OP - I wish you all the best and please please please give us an update once you delve into it.

[barnakiel]

Whatever material you decide to ship (in your small tall ships) must be of the kind that suffers no deterioration over (moderately extended) time of the voyage. You are unlikely to have the capacit to cool / jeep dry / etc. the cargo. Thus some types of cargo are out of the question - e.g. vanilla and cacao beans are known to hate extended bulk storage, high humidity, etc.


There is a soultion though - get a ship that will allow a container (or two) to fit in the hold (s). Now you are still a tall ship outwardly, but the cargo is stored as if it were sailing on a 21s MSC container ship - cooled or dried or compartized to the best standards that guarantee the product/cargo to arrive in a1+ condition.


b.

[barnakiel]

One further point is dealing with Agriculture and Fishery border regulations.


E.g. in NZ and AUS you will be allowed to import (bring in) hardly anything. Virtually all natural material brought from the islands is prohibited.


You need to be 100% you are clear with these institutions to avoid the headache of arriving with a ship full of coconuts only to see them confiscated and destroyed by Bio controls of a modern country. Btw you still pay the bill for destruction of the cargo and for trying to import an 'illegal' material.


b.

[barnakiel]

On the business front, you need to see the difference between the coffee lover and the coffee merchant. If you own a ship, your clients will be the merchants, not the coffee freaks. Unless you own the whole chain, which in today's highly competitive world is not very likely.


So all you do will be set to please the merchant. Marketing, network, incentives, research and alliances.


Also on the island end, you are likely dealing with merchants, not farmers.


b.

[barnakiel]

I think this is a fascinating project.


b.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by billgewater

Gee, I've never seen such an input from the readers!
But here is my bit. Would you rather sail/travel on a small ship (sail or otherwise) or go on a large cattle style cruise ship? On my last 12 day cruise, nearly every one on board caught influenza. Casino-like foyers. Never again.

There just might be a market out there for healthy retirees to pay for the experience as an alternative to cruise ship travel (which can be stunningly boring).....................

You do realize, there is already a healthy small ship cruise market in place.

Not that you couldn't break in but it's not an empty market. In fact many are owned by the big cattle class cruise lines and they often feed the small ships with their high end clientele.

But going off the old Windjammer cruise line, if you are going to operate a cruise, you can sell "eco" but it's really hard to be "eco". If you have 50-100 passengers with flights out on Sunday, you darn well better make port by Sunday. They had sails and would occasionally even raise them but they ran the diesel to make port.

While it's likely much more lucrative, passenger service is much more complicated and regulated (even on the international stage).

[valhalla360]

What about starting small...

If you got say a 60-70ft cruising sailboat, could you convert one of the cabins to storage, line it and put a filtration system in. Then run small generator to keep it cooled on a shorter run to a port with airport access.

You might only be able to transport 1000-2000lb of cargo but lots of viable modern boats that can be primarily operated by sail with 2-3 crew, meeting the "eco" goal while keeping costs moderate. By keeping the actual sailiing portion limited, you lower the risk of damage in transit.

The main thing is then marketing.

In a similar scenario, you might get in touch with a bourbon/whiskey producer. You might be able to buy un-aged barrels. Leave them onboard while doing small scale charters (possibly tying into various seaside distilleries). Then after a year or so, you bottle and sell the resulting product at a steep premium. I could see a summer of charters in Ireland & Scotland visiting wiskey/whiskey distilleries followed by wintering in the Carribean visiting Rum distilleries. You would have to do some legwork on the import/export implications but now you have a popular niche market with a lower entry cost.

[Jackofall]

You make a good point about passengers. Do the rules change when they "volunteer" as "crew" even if they are paying? I guess they would have to sign a liability waiver? This is stuff for lawyers tbh.

My intial thinking regarding routes is Amsterdam or Venice to Columbia/ Brazil and back. Venice would be cool because of its history as one of the original coffee trade ports. Remainder of the route to Switzerland would be via rail and is the shortest distance to from port to merchant. Amsterdam would also work and we can either use rail or transfer the cargo onto another boat and ship it down the Rhine river into Basel. Also easier to sell off excess cargo in Amsterdam or London. Finding enough buyers wont be a problem. I can probably focus purely on importing to the Swiss market.
I also love the idea a making our own cask aged rum. Why not make our own brand so we own most of the chain?