Tallships. Which one?

[Muaddib1116]

I understood your meaning, I was wondering what bearing those statements had to the quoted text they were replying to.

I think the general idea is interesting and exciting as well, but it's a pretty limited intellectual exercise if the main party is not going to disclose the bulk of his ideas. So I wish him well, but don't see much purpose in being part of the exercise, unless new information is revealed.

[LLCoolDave]

Very interesting thread. Of the companies the op mentioned, they are all operating old to very old boats. The debt needed for new construction or completion of someone else's project would be a huge obstacle to solvency of a new business. While kwai might not fit the bill, something with similar costs and an established business would be a big leg up in being successful. I think finding an uncompleted project is a real long shot as boats like this aren't just sitting around.

This is just me, I've worked customer service my entire career. I'd love a work boat like kwai where I could be profitable without charter guests. Also keeping a 100+ft boat in bristol condition is an insane amount of work. We have a line of thinking in dirt bike riding. When you get a new dirt bike just tip it over and break something, then you can ride and really enjoy it. No need to worry about the little scratches. Lol

Whatever the op decides on I hope he keeps us updated.

[Jackofall]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I understood your meaning, I was wondering what bearing those statements had to the quoted text they were replying to.

I think the general idea is interesting and exciting as well, but it's a pretty limited intellectual exercise if the main party is not going to disclose the bulk of his ideas. So I wish him well, but don't see much purpose in being part of the exercise, unless new information is revealed.

The general idea is to have the niche coffee trade as one side of income revenue, the other side is targeted guests/volunteers. Also a very niche market that has a tolerence for higher prices. The ability to run cargo for emergency relief and also ocean clean up projects is also on the table. I will need to hire a professional captain, engineer, and a couple of crew mates until I am able to captain. Yes, it will take a few years for me to gain the credentials and expeirence but even then I will most likely still need a captain whenever we we have these targeted guests. Its educational and I am the instructor so to speak. In between these "client" runs I would love to be able to captain such a ship. I am already actively learning everything I can and plan on taking a professional course after I volunteer for a voyage myself.
All of this can be profitable.

[DirtyPigeon]

Making a living working a 200+ ton schooner or the like sounds great, but if you honestly worked it, vs just doing fantasy charters.

Could you load it is easily? I mean I’m not sure you could do a real lolo, with the rigging and all I don’t see getting a container or a F150 or someone’s twin engined go fast toy on board, like others said I could see lots of man power to load bags of coffee or the like.

My other big concern would be who is going to insure this think AND THE CARGO?

And what’s the break even, with how slow and much more weather dependent this type of vessel is compared to their more modern brethren, if this was a serious thing you would have to majorly undercut everyone, or somehow make this a tax write off? Maybe have a bunch of convicts/at risk youth/college kids crew it as a work skills program?

Again, the insurance for that seems like a mountain, maybe flag it and try to find a way to not have insurance?

For emergency efforts, no one is going to use you for anything critical, they NEED those supplies, I don’t think they want to trust a 200 year old sailing ship and the winds with their medical goods, I could see them using you to transport stuffed animals or the like for a feel good PR type event.

I think you would have to build this like red bull built their “Air Force”

Sounds like a very sexy idea, and I cold see it making a million...but you’d have to start with 10 million

[mako]

Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

We have a line of thinking in dirt bike riding. When you get a new dirt bike just tip it over and break something, then you can ride and really enjoy it. No need to worry about the little scratches.

LOL. When I got my XR600 beast the first thing I “broke in” was my shoulder!

[Manateeman]

Hi. I’m sorry but I tried to get across the legal issues involved and I guess I failed. So let me provide the perspective from the point of a professional Mariner.
Now not every professional Mariner shares my opinion, but I’m kinda sure a lot do. I’ll get straight to the point. Adventures in Paradise was a television series.
It’s not the real world. If Ken and Barbie want to buy a boat, sail to Patagonia and blog everyday about the life of their cat...fine. Go for it.
Two people want to do freight...go for it. Do whatever you want on your yacht.
But the moment someone sets foot on your vessel and give you anything of value, they are now a passenger. Labor is something of value. Food, share of expenses. Share of the profit or plunder. Anything of value = passenger.
You ought to have all your licenses and hull inspections and drug test right up to date because it’s almost a universal law. Kinda like airplanes. Anyone can buy one, just not fly it. Almost, because the countries which act as loopholes increase the risk, not just to unknowing passengers, but to yachts and professional mariners alike. I’ve got no use for scofflaws or con job boats.
I’ve seen poor people at sea trying desperately to improve their lot in life.
A lot of simple human kindness has been given to them by professionals and yachtsmen alike. It’s the right thing to do.
The first and oldest law of the sea is to aid another Mariner in distress if it does not endanger you or your vessel. Thus from this...it clearly and logically follows that prior to setting out to sea...prior...one has a moral obligation to have a sound vessel, an education or experienced sufficient to reasonably address the dangers of the planned voyage. To encourage others to just set sail and seek their dreams and learn on the way? Reprehensible.
You know how snoopy began the story on his typewriter...it was a dark and stormy night. And in it, maybe some poor soul swept out to sea in a third world boat just trying to feed his family... Or commercial fishermen in Alaska hard aground being swept by sea ice...and into it jumps a Coast Guard Swimmer from a helo. I’m not going to ask another man or woman to put their life on the line so someone can play Adventures in Paradise.
All the rules and requirements for offshore yachts or commercial vessels are well established and for good reason. Rational and knowledgeable mariners helped write them. I advised the chair of the USCG, Merchant Marine and Fisheries sub committee. He, and all the others on the Committee listened to every suggestion be it from industry or the Coast Guard or a single fisherman. The common goal was to make life at sea as safe as possible. Same in other countries. If you and your vessel look professional, you are treated as such not just by the authorities but by professional mariners.
Taking anyone to sea in some semi derelict boat with a half baked skipper ?
Pray to God nothing bad happens. Insurance will not pay. This isn’t Gillian’s Island. The charge will be negligent homicide and the expert witness against you might be a licensed professional.
I’m done with this illogical, narcissistic, fantasy tale.
Roll the credits.
Mark, a prudent manatee

[Jackofall]

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Hi. I’m sorry but I tried to get across the legal issues involved and I guess I failed. So let me provide the perspective from the point of a professional Mariner.
Now not every professional Mariner shares my opinion, but I’m kinda sure a lot do. I’ll get straight to the point. Adventures in Paradise was a television series.
It’s not the real world. If Ken and Barbie want to buy a boat, sail to Patagonia and blog everyday about the life of their cat...fine. Go for it.
Two people want to do freight...go for it. Do whatever you want on your yacht.
But the moment someone sets foot on your vessel and give you anything of value, they are now a passenger. Labor is something of value. Food, share of expenses. Share of the profit or plunder. Anything of value = passenger.
You ought to have all your licenses and hull inspections and drug test right up to date because it’s almost a universal law. Kinda like airplanes. Anyone can buy one, just not fly it. Almost, because the countries which act as loopholes increase the risk, not just to unknowing passengers, but to yachts and professional mariners alike. I’ve got no use for scofflaws or con job boats.
I’ve seen poor people at sea trying desperately to improve their lot in life.
A lot of simple human kindness has been given to them by professionals and yachtsmen alike. It’s the right thing to do.
The first and oldest law of the sea is to aid another Mariner in distress if it does not endanger you or your vessel. Thus from this...it clearly and logically follows that prior to setting out to sea...prior...one has a moral obligation to have a sound vessel, an education or experienced sufficient to reasonably address the dangers of the planned voyage. To encourage others to just set sail and seek their dreams and learn on the way? Reprehensible.
You know how snoopy began the story on his typewriter...it was a dark and stormy night. And in it, maybe some poor soul swept out to sea in a third world boat just trying to feed his family... Or commercial fishermen in Alaska hard aground being swept by sea ice...and into it jumps a Coast Guard Swimmer from a helo. I’m not going to ask another man or woman to put their life on the line so someone can play Adventures in Paradise.
All the rules and requirements for offshore yachts or commercial vessels are well established and for good reason. Rational and knowledgeable mariners helped write them. I advised the chair of the USCG, Merchant Marine and Fisheries sub committee. He, and all the others on the Committee listened to every suggestion be it from industry or the Coast Guard or a single fisherman. The common goal was to make life at sea as safe as possible. Same in other countries. If you and your vessel look professional, you are treated as such not just by the authorities but by professional mariners.
Taking anyone to sea in some semi derelict boat with a half baked skipper ?
Pray to God nothing bad happens. Insurance will not pay. This isn’t Gillian’s Island. The charge will be negligent homicide and the expert witness against you might be a licensed professional.
I’m done with this illogical, narcissistic, fantasy tale.
Roll the credits.
Mark, a prudent manatee

I think I've made it clear that I took your prior post seriously and said that legal and insurance is of the upmost important. I've made it clear I am looking for a good boat, except for mentioning a half finished project boat, which if professionally done could still be a bargain. I plan to have a sound ship, with professional crew to meet all requirements. This is not some fantasy adventure by any means and will not be some derelict outfit. What on earth ever gave you that idea?

[markpierce]

All those believing in this pipe dream, contribute $100K each as stockholders. For a start, the need is at least 30 contributers.

[Jackofall]

Originally Posted by markpierce

All those believing in this pipe dream, contribute $100K each as stockholders. For a start, the need is at least 30 contributers.

Hey thats a great idea. $100K for Silver investors.
$250K for Gold and $500K for lifetime Plantium.
Please form an orderly line, first come first serve.

Info and contacts are equally welcome.

So, lets use Lady Ellen as an example.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/schooner-topsail-3484962/
What would be the required (by law) crew requirements to sail such a ship? What are the average salaries of such crew members?

[Jackofall]

Originally Posted by Don C L

The S/V Kwai is exactly the kind of thing you should be looking into I think. If it comes with the business and storage facilities in HI and all the work that has been done to her... it looks like an example of what you're thinking of that has actually been out there doing it. I don't see a boat that has been beaten up, I see a work boat, which is what I think you are thinking of. The work she has been doing cleaning up the gyre of lost nets may be just the kind of thing a foundation would like to support as well.

This is one side of the funding to keep her working. Not only does the company get even further tax cuts (Swiss tax, carbon credits, Swiss carbon neutral inititive) for charity work, you also have the ability to recieve funding from foundations (including your own) and government grants. One could still achieve that with a work boat like Kwai. However, with a nicer, more upscale boat thats pleasing to the eye, one could gain corporate sponsorship. You increase that ability if she truely is an eco sailing vessel. Meaning switching out the diesel engines with an electric hybrid system with sail regen. The tax credits help pay for this conversion.

[PirateFoxy]

I think in terms of image the Kwai could be made to look more attractive with a good scrub and repaint and some attention to detail on materials and colors used on deck/in visible areas. Remember that most recently she’s basically been hauling trash - she needs to be seaworthy for that, not pretty.

Starting with something like the Kwai may be an opportunity to build a brand and a reputation as being safe and reliable, which will enable adding something with better aesthetics later on?

Also, if not an actual typical container, I think I’d look into if the main hold could be sized to fit some kind of modular regularly sized stacking bins so it isn’t necessary to hand-arrange everything when loading and unloading. You’d lose some cargo weight and space to the bins, but you’d gain loading and unloading speed and also to some degree have better protected product, as people definitely do not handle the last box with the same care as the first when they’re having to arrange by hand tons of cargo. I imagine there’s potentially some reason why other people aren’t doing it that way, but I’d investigate the idea at least.

[Jackofall]

Here is a container design that is a possibility.
https://www.gosailcargo.com/ec-100.html

Another cargo design.
https://marigraph.com/design.php?cat=sail&lng=en

Also, here is the pipe dream on a larger scale.
https://newsrnd.com/business/2020-08...Bk1S6wVbD.html

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by PirateFoxy

I think in terms of image the Kwai could be made to look more attractive with a good scrub and repaint and some attention to detail on materials and colors used on deck/in visible areas. Remember that most recently she’s basically been hauling trash - she needs to be seaworthy for that, not pretty.

Starting with something like the Kwai may be an opportunity to build a brand and a reputation as being safe and reliable, which will enable adding something with better aesthetics later on?

Also, if not an actual typical container, I think I’d look into if the main hold could be sized to fit some kind of modular regularly sized stacking bins so it isn’t necessary to hand-arrange everything when loading and unloading. You’d lose some cargo weight and space to the bins, but you’d gain loading and unloading speed and also to some degree have better protected product, as people definitely do not handle the last box with the same care as the first when they’re having to arrange by hand tons of cargo. I imagine there’s potentially some reason why other people aren’t doing it that way, but I’d investigate the idea at least.

Thats working on the assumption one would be loadng at commercial ports..
However thats not where the best deals can be made.. anchoring off and getting local producers to ferry the goods to the ship cuts a lot of costs for the shipper and the same for the producers..
A Win Win for both sides..

[mako]

I get the goal to be eco-friendly, but honestly trying to use sail to deliver products, on a schedule to please your paying customers, isn’t practical.

How about going green by using a small cargo ship that you repower to run off CNG or LPG?

Would have to choose your trade routes carefully for refueling, but you’d have to choose your sailing routes equally carefully.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by makobuilders

I get the goal to be eco-friendly, but honestly trying to use sail to deliver products, on a schedule to please your paying customers, isn’t practical.

How about going green by using a small cargo ship that you repower to run off CNG or LPG?

Would have to choose your trade routes carefully for refueling, but you’d have to choose your sailing routes equally carefully.

Your working to the 'Just in Time' model.. however for a Green Organic model one can work differently with goods auctioned off on arrival at port to known buyers/vendors..
Not all markets work the same.