Tartan 27 advice

[aDemilich]

Hi all,

I'm a new sailor considering buying this Tartan 27:
https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa...219174470.html

I liked what I saw of the boat in person, and as far as I know they have a very good reputation (this one is from '67). The problem is that I would like to eventually use it as a liveaboard that I work a remote IT job from, and I'm really concerned about the comfort of the cabin for this purpose. The bench seats really aren't set up well for sitting on a computer for long periods of time- the bottom the the deck overhangs the seats at a pretty low level, so if you try to lean back you and up hitting your head or having to crane your neck forward to avoid it. Can anyone think of a workaround for this other than just planting a comfortable fold-up chair in the middle of the cabin? I really like the boat and I think I can likely negotiate the price down to $4800 or so which seems like an OK deal, but this one thing might be a deal breaker if I can't find a solution. I know I'd probably be better off getting something like a Catalina 27 as someone totally new to sailing, but I just like things that are a bit more quirky or unusual and this seems like a good middle ground.

I also likely won't be able to get it surveyed, since the owner needs it gone by 11/22. He assures me that the hull and Yanmar diesel are solid and told me the deck has been fully glassed over somewhat recently. Anything I should be really looking out for before I commit to buying it? I've had a look at the surveying 101 guide and will be trying to check a lot of the things mentioned there if I go look at it again and take it for a sail, but I have no expertise on boats so I'm not confident in my ability to identify any major red flags. If anyone knowledgeable here is in the Tampa/St.Pete area and would be willing to come look at it with me, I'd be happy to compensate you well for your time.
Thanks for looking!

[Rob_P]

Get it surveyed. "Glassed over recently" says that there's been a problem with the deck and you need an expert to look at it before you hand over your money.

If the current owner won't go for that because he needs to move it before 11-22, then pass on the deal. Not just for this reason, but your comments about how the salon isn't really set up for you to "work from home" make it 2 strikes.

[SVQuestOfPaget]

I think you've already described several good reasons to keep looking. Owner "assurances" are often worthless, and I usually consider them red flags. People have lived aboard smaller boats, but you will find things to get cramped in a hurry, and you can probably find more comfortable boats for similar money, and in better shape.

When I see "custom" interiors using tongue and groove pine, it's often because the original plywood bulkheads were rotten from longterm water intrusion and it's an easy way to cover up the damage. The holding tank that size will fill up in a few flushes as well.

If you have little experience with sailboats, then it is well worth spending the money on a surveyor. They will be able to more objectively tell you what is fishy! It's too easy to fall in love with a boat and not see the underlying issues.

Good luck with your search!

[zemurray]

I agree with whats said above, although i also understand paying for a $1000 survey on a $5000 boat might be a stretch. That boat seems awfully cheap. The glassed over deck is not normal. no one glasses over a deck unless the deck is rotted. Perhaps they repaired it the right way, and maybe they just added a layer of fiberglass over it so it would be less squishy. I’d probably pass. Also, a 27’ boat is hard to live on. I stay on our 28 for weeks at a time, working from it, and its small for sure. I think any boat you buy less than $20k is going to be a handful of constant projects. You will easily put 10k or more into it in the first year just maintaining it and making it right.

[Don C L]

That boat has a good pedigree and has a good rep for build (the older boats have a good deal of glass in the hull.) Certainly had a good designer! I don't know what they glassed but I am betting it was some wet plywood core in the deck that may have been removed. To me, not a deal breaker. There is not a lot to go wrong on my very similar old boat that will keep her from sailing or certainly living aboard as long as you are good with the interior volume. I have a boat very similar to that one and I lived on one similar and smaller (Columbia 24) while I was in college. I loved it, but I had no possessions! In college I set up a table temporarily across the settees and I sat on some kind of seat on the cabin sole (floor) and it was the perfect height for typing on my typewriter! I have a rotating Lagun table on my 29 footer now that might serve that boat well. Feel free to check my album and here are some links that may help.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...al-153058.html
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...9-a-75004.html
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ic-160329.html
By the way, I have some plywood core issues but there is so much glass there already, I'm not worried about it yet.
You might be able to get it for a bit cheaper. How is the engine? That Yanmar is a real plus!

edit: I hadn't even read the ad. Now that I have, it looks good, I say go for it! Maybe the rigging needs replacing, maybe sails... but those are not hard to take care of and you don't have to spend big bucks.

[Don C L]

OK finally looking at your original question... I'd take the table of the wall and make it temporarily mountable from the side under the windows there and put the seat against the bulkhead where the hinges are now. The swing out table may solve that too, but don't feel like you HAVE to have the table mounted like that. Lagun also makes stainless fold-up arms for tables too. If you really like that boat and it checks out structurally, and you can make it comfortable, it looks like it has real potential. I'd get a look at the thru-hulls too, but if they are original that could be fine. Mine are original and the bronze is still fine. And the bonus is I think you'll have a lot of fun sailing her too!

[Rockinar]

Looks sketchy to me, but what do you expect for $5K? Can you even stand up in it? The holding tank hanging out for you to look all day at is pretty gross. Its also small so I hope you have access to another bathroom or daily trips to a pumpout station. It's also going to make your boat stink like sewage, so not only do you get to look at it, you will get to smell it.

My opinion. Fine for a weekender or day sailor. I would not want to live on it. Too stinky. No A/C and 100 degree Florida heat and humidity with a holding tank and vented loop 5 feet from your face. Stock up on the Cool Water cologne.

This boat is a total gamble. Normally, cheap boats are the most expensive. If the engine is shot you're looking at $7K+. Sails...$3K....standing rigging $3K....bottom paint, $1000.

This $5K could cost you $20K.

[Don C L]

$3K for new standing rigging? I did my own for a lot less than that. Sails? I found a like new main for $500. If the ad is right sounds like the engine is running. The head stinks? Drop the chemical in or there are good porta-potties that hold 5 gallons and no smell. In other words, as long as you are not trying to make a good old boat brand new and more than she was meant to be, I bet she still has plenty of good life in her for not much cash. But you have to be ok with the size. Yeah I'd get a good tarp that lets no radiation through to cover the house and cockpit while you are living on her. If you can live lightly and simply, and keep all the extras that don't fit in the boat, in a van, it's not a bad life! If you think you are living in a boat, almost ANY boat will be too small. If you remember you are living on the ocean, you might find you don't need as much as you thought.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by SVQuestOfPaget

When I see "custom" interiors using tongue and groove pine, it's often because the original plywood bulkheads were rotten from longterm water intrusion and it's an easy way to cover up the damage. The holding tank that size will fill up in a few flushes as well.

This is a valid point made by Quest. In combination with the "deck recently glassed over" comment by the owner, both seem to point to major water intrusion.

Secondly, have a look at a Tartan 27's original design and interior layout. Not only is (this tampa example) rather ugly, it's also a dramatic departure from the original design.

If you're spending $5,000 to sit on a dock somewhere and not sail, I suppose she'd be very stinky, but...well... at least she still floats.

Don't actually GO anywhere in her, however.

LittleWing77

Have a read of the thread below (and esp look at the pictures) to see what you'd be dealing with if there's rot going on behind those walls:

Help - Super Funky Smell
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ll-240361.html

[aDemilich]

Thanks for the great info, everyone. At this point I'm thinking I just need to give up on the liveaboard dream for a while and get a cheap sailing dinghy to learn on while saving up money and waiting for a liveaboard slip to open up somewhere, which could take years from the sound of it. I can dream all day, but I'm just in way over my head trying to pursue this with limited funds, no knowledge, and no slip. If I knew anyone experienced who could help me, that might change things, but I've been living a transient life out of my car and don't know anyone here.

[Don C L]

Best of luck to you!

[blove8]

Originally Posted by aDemilich

Thanks for the great info, everyone. At this point I'm thinking I just need to give up on the liveaboard dream for a while and get a cheap sailing dinghy to learn on while saving up money and waiting for a liveaboard slip to open up somewhere, which could take years from the sound of it. I can dream all day, but I'm just in way over my head trying to pursue this with limited funds, no knowledge, and no slip. If I knew anyone experienced who could help me, that might change things, but I've been living a transient life out of my car and don't know anyone here.

Hey mate,
Just wanted to give you a couple tips and tell you how I got started learning to sail with very little cash...

1) I had plans to move from Michigan to Chicago, IL, and in that process, I emailed the Midwest Open Racing Fleet to ask if they had any boats accepting green crew. They lined me up with a boat which I eventually raced on two separate races.. the second race I blew my knee out while crouched on the mid-deck. A freak accident that had very little to do with my or the crew's ability and a lot to do with my shoddy knees. This put me out of the game for a while. That said, I didn't want to go back to that same boat as they never even contacted me to find out if I was okay.

So, after I had surgery and was back to feeling good and strong...

2) I ended up going to a meet and greet function at the Chicago Yacht Club. Let's just say, I didn't quite look like CYC material, but I give them credit for letting me in anyway. While I did meet several friendly people (including the commodore) and had some nice conversations, I wasn't able to line up a boat to crew for.

which led me to this, a week or so later...

3) I bought a 15 pack of All Day IPA cans, made a cardboard sign saying "Have beer... Need crew?" and stood in front of the Chicago Corinthian Yacht Club on Wednesday afternoon (a bit before the beer can racers where going to be shoving off) with my bike which I rode there and my gear bag. I had visited this location on several occasions this particular summer, just observing, and the place really had a vibe that gelled with me. It didn't take long before I was approached by someone who read my sign, introduced themself, and said, "Come with me". I've been sailing on this particular boat and a crew member of the CCYC ever since (late summer, 2017). This is the harbor I will have my new boat (just purchased this Halloween) moored in and will be a full member of CCYC in 2021.

So, just keep in mind, where there is a will there is a way. You can't predict the future, but choices you make can have an impact on outcomes. If you really want to sail, you will figure out a way. I recommend looking into your local beer can races / sailing organizations / yacht clubs, and reach out to a fleet captain to see if there are any boats looking for crew. From what I know, many fleets have a "leave no willing participant on the dock" policy and if you sweeten the deal with some beer or rum, that will probably help even more. Hahaa

Please feel free to PM me as you continue following your dream. Cheers!

[aDemilich]

Originally Posted by blove8

Hey mate,
Just wanted to give you a couple tips and tell you how I got started learning to sail with very little cash...

1) I had plans to move from Michigan to Chicago, IL, and in that process, I emailed the Midwest Open Racing Fleet to ask if they had any boats accepting green crew. They lined me up with a boat which I eventually raced on two separate races.. the second race I blew my knee out while crouched on the mid-deck. A freak accident that had very little to do with my or the crew's ability and a lot to do with my shoddy knees. This put me out of the game for a while. That said, I didn't want to go back to that same boat as they never even contacted me to find out if I was okay.

So, after I had surgery and was back to feeling good and strong...

2) I ended up going to a meet and greet function at the Chicago Yacht Club. Let's just say, I didn't quite look like CYC material, but I give them credit for letting me in anyway. While I did meet several friendly people (including the commodore) and had some nice conversations, I wasn't able to line up a boat to crew for.

which led me to this, a week or so later...

3) I bought a 15 pack of All Day IPA cans, made a cardboard sign saying "Have beer... Need crew?" and stood in front of the Chicago Corinthian Yacht Club on Wednesday afternoon (a bit before the beer can racers where going to be shoving off) with my bike which I rode there and my gear bag. I had visited this location on several occasions this particular summer, just observing, and the place really had a vibe that gelled with me. It didn't take long before I was approached by someone who read my sign, introduced themself, and said, "Come with me". I've been sailing on this particular boat and a crew member of the CCYC ever since (late summer, 2017). This is the harbor I will have my new boat (just purchased this Halloween) moored in and will be a full member of CCYC in 2021.

So, just keep in mind, where there is a will there is a way. You can't predict the future, but choices you make can have an impact on outcomes. If you really want to sail, you will figure out a way. I recommend looking into your local beer can races / sailing organizations / yacht clubs, and reach out to a fleet captain to see if there are any boats looking for crew. From what I know, many fleets have a "leave no willing participant on the dock" policy and if you sweeten the deal with some beer or rum, that will probably help even more. Hahaa

Please feel free to PM me as you continue following your dream. Cheers!

Thank you for the great advice! I love the story about just posting up with a 15 pack and a sign, and may try something very much like this in the future. The current pandemic situation has made a lot of things harder in terms of meeting new people, but I'm also taking lessons at the local sailing club now and spending most of my free time trying to educate myself on everything I can regarding sailing and boat maintenance.
Just a few days after I made the post you quoted, I went against my better judgement and bought a C&C 27 that's very well maintained and was listed at an absurdly low price, so for better or worse, I'm committed to this journey now. It's still on its trailer at the moment as I get insurance and a marina slip figured out, but it needs practically no work to get sailing and I have several marinas who tell me they can get me in right away, so things are looking pretty good!
I look forward to hearing about your future adventures, and sharing my own with this wonderful community.

[blove8]

Awesome, mate! Congrats on the new boat! Will you share pics and a bit about your purchasing experience/process? Please share more.

Yeah, I didn't really take the pandemic into consideration when making that last post. The pandemic has changed so much. You're styling now, though, now that you have your own boat!!