Tender for 40' Yacht ?

[zeehag]

one voids theft by rising the dinghy up against the hull with halyard connected to lifting harness on the dink and using an ugly lock with chain to secure both engine and dink to boat.. this can tend to scratch the gelcoat or paint or what-have-you on the hull. but, then, sailing in ocean waters for extended times and passages can tend to mess up the hull also. mebbe you would prefer to keep her in a marina forever-- wont mess the paint job at all....but that i just an observation.
btw--barnacles dont grow unless the dink is left in water more than 2 weeks sans paint, so that wont be your issue. good luck.

[JazzyO]

The effects of water sailing">blue water sailing on hulls are well known to me. I'm just looking for a decent method to get a dinghy onto my boat and if I can avoid making my boat look like a Ripper victim then so much the better.

Wouldn't it be possible to use the spinnaker boom? I have a short one as well as a long one, short one would be better methinks. Rig a halyard to the end of the boom, use a block and tackle from the end of the boom to the dinghy, hoist tackle first then hoist halyard and swing boom + dinghy aboard. You'd probably want to steady it with one line running aft held by a crew member.

I'm just thinking out loud here.


Onno

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

Hmmm, somehow I feel you could have put that a little more friendly.

It seems to me that there must be a solution to avoiding scratches. Anybody any ideas. And how do you put davits on this, anyway, they would need to be far too long to support the weight and the backstay is in the way.

I'd welcome any constructive comments.


Onno

Sorry.... really didnt mean to be "unfriendly". Wow, that's a real machine, beautiful! I see your problem for sure. I think If I were going to lift a dingy aboard a lot, I would compromise for an air floor and smaller outboard. If you look at my avatar on the left, that HC38 has a 9ft RIB on the deck. Here is what I found to be the sequence (as best I can remember!) to get it there.
* Obviously remove all items like engine, oars etc.
* Using a halyard and dingy bridle lift the dingy up to near the top of the lifelines.
* One problem is that the natural tendency of the physics involved make the dingy want to stay on the side of the boat because of the halyard angle and list created. Pulling/swinging it over the lifelines takes a lot of effort.
* To clear the lifelines you have to lift it pretty high due to the bridle height and height of the lifelines.
* One person will have to tend the halyard winch. Unless you rig a 2 part system, they will need to be pretty strong (we're talking similar effort as hoisting someone aloft)
*When you finally get the dingy over the foredeck and are holding it there,(with great effort pulling) the Halyard person will need to lower it down. At this point the dingy will likely be resting athwartships and the stern may be on the lifelines.
*now manhandle it into a position so you can turn it over and put it where you want it. Each time you set it down or rest it on the lifelines orange slime will transfer.
*It's likely that it will be pretty slimy on the bottom and need washing, if you develop "island time" while cruising, you may also find that you dont hoist it up every night, and there may be small sharp barnacles on the bottom the size of a BB or smaller that develop in just a few days. You can avoid both these scenarios, by taking the dingy to the beach first (rowing) roll it over and clean it there... although sand may be an issue.
* maybe you can come up with a scheme using the reaching strut to make this easier.... if you can attach it high enough up the mast and put the halyard through it.
* as you can tell from the process, it may take up most of a morning or previous afternoon prior to departure... you'll find a way that works for you!

[JazzyO]

Thanks for the effort in answering, it really is much appreciated. And thanks for the compliments, yes I do think she is stunning as well. There is something about the cruiser/racers that were built on IOR rules. It was a dreamboat when I was 15 (and the boat was new). I think if you buy a boat you should not be able to resist a look over the shoulder as you walk away from the mooring.

I guess I'm going to have to invest some time and effort to create a solution. Let's see if my sleeping engineering brain can be woken and save the day.

If I do come up with something I'll share it here.


Onno

[Arcady]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

Hi Jim,

I'd love to know a bit more about this. I don't want davits on my lovely Baltic and I've got about 1.5m freeboard I would say. Being new to cruising, I've been puzzling on the tender issue. I've been concerned about both RIB and OB being very cumbersome to get onboard. At the same time, I've really wondered if a light engine such as a 2.5hp would be enough and from the comments here it certainly doesn't look like it will. The tides in the English channel surely will make this even more of an issue.

BTW - what precautions do people take on theft prevention?

Thanks,

Onno

Oh - and sorry for the slight hi-jack, OP!

JazzyO,

If you can do without a planing tender, then there are real advantages. We carry a 10' traditional clinker-style grp dinghy in davits on our 40 footer. With an easily driven displacement shape, rowing becomes a pleasure and even a 2.5 hp Honda pushes the dink with five persons (max!) at four to five knots: plenty for most of the tides we regularly deal with. A 'proper' shape to the dink means that trips are usually drier than an inflatable or probably even a RIB. It's simple - an efficient hull shape equates to a smaller, lighter, cheaper outboard requirement.

I did haul this dink aboard in the early days with a spare halyard, but as has already been observed, this leads to scratches and scuffs. Davits are definitely better!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

Hi Jim,

I'd love to know a bit more about this. I don't want davits on my lovely Baltic and I've got about 1.5m freeboard I would say. Being new to cruising, I've been puzzling on the tender issue. I've been concerned about both RIB and OB being very cumbersome to get onboard. At the same time, I've really wondered if a light engine such as a 2.5hp would be enough and from the comments here it certainly doesn't look like it will. The tides in the English channel surely will make this even more of an issue.

BTW - what precautions do people take on theft prevention?

Thanks,


Onno

Oh - and sorry for the slight hi-jack, OP!

G'Day Jazzy,

Sorry for the delay in responding -- I hadn't looked at this thread for a long time.

Despite all the negative tales that have been posted above, we manage our 3.5 m alloy hull RIB without scratching things up, and have done so for a long time now. Decking the dinghy goes as follows:

Hoist the dink (after removing all the loose stuff and the engine) using the spinny halyard attached to the bow fitting. Obviously, this brings it up in a vertical orientation. Ann mans the halyard winch and I lean over the lifelines holding the dink away from the hull of the yacht. If we are rolling a bit this is easier if you have the tube side facing the hull rather than the hard side! As the ends of the tubes clear the lifelines I allow gravity to swing the boat inward, and when it is hanging just in front of the mast with the hull of the dink facing aft, Ann lowers it gently until the tube tips touch the deck and begin to bear some weight. I then pull the bow of the dink forward so that as she lowers it further it leans towards the bow of the yacht. When it is at around 45 degrees, I pull the plugs and start the deflation process, followed by sucking the last bits of air out with an electric in/deflator (a very worthwhile accessory IMO). I tuck the flaccid tubes inward as I'm doing this to reduce the size of the footprint on deck. Once the air is all gone she lowers it the rest of the way onto the deck and we lash it down. If it is slimy, we clean it up before lashing it.

Launching is just the opposite process, inflating it whilst at circa 45 degrees and then hoisting it over the lifelines. Either process takes us about twenty minutes without rushing... a bit more if cleaning is required.

Strong winds make it a lot more difficult, as does heavy rolling.

We handle the 15 hp o/b thus: I sewed up a removable harness from 1 inch nylon webbing, and this stays on the engine 24/7, but can come off for servicing. To remove the engine, we tie the dink alongside, with the engine just aft of the mast. Hook the main halyard (lead outside of the lazyjacks and runners) to the harness, loosen the clamps and then climb back aboard the yacht. Then Ann winches it up a few inches (exact distance determined by experiment and marked on the halyard), and I start walking it aft along the side deck. As we go aft, the engine follows the arc determined by the length of the halyard, and as we reach the storage bracket at the stern, the motor is poised just above the mount. She then lowers it the few inches as I guide it onto the mount and then remove the halyard and tighten the clamps. Takes less than two minutes, start to finish, and very little effort. Putting it back on the dinghy is the reverse: Ann hoists it a few inches, I walk it forward until it is hanging straight down above the dinghies transom. Then climb down, and guide it into place as she lowers it the last few inches. The latter operation can require good timing if the water is choppy and the dinghy bouncing about, but we've done it countless times over the past 25 years and never dropped it in the drink yet (touch wood!).

It might bear noting that Insatiable II has a painted hull, far more delicate than gel-coat, and we've managed to not ding it up so far. Also worth noting is that we're old farts, not athletic sorts, and yet this method remains do-able!

Hope that this helps, Jazzy... if you have any specific questions I'd be glad to try them on.

Cheers,

Jim

[Lojanica]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Sorry.... really didnt mean to be "unfriendly". Wow, that's a real machine, beautiful! I see your problem for sure. I think If I were going to lift a dingy aboard a lot, I would compromise for an air floor and smaller outboard. If you look at my avatar on the left, that HC38 has a 9ft RIB on the deck. Here is what I found to be the sequence (as best I can remember!) to get it there.
* Obviously remove all items like engine, oars etc.
* Using a halyard and dingy bridle lift the dingy up to near the top of the lifelines.
* One problem is that the natural tendency of the physics involved make the dingy want to stay on the side of the boat because of the halyard angle and list created. Pulling/swinging it over the lifelines takes a lot of effort.
* To clear the lifelines you have to lift it pretty high due to the bridle height and height of the lifelines.
* One person will have to tend the halyard winch. Unless you rig a 2 part system, they will need to be pretty strong (we're talking similar effort as hoisting someone aloft)
*When you finally get the dingy over the foredeck and are holding it there,(with great effort pulling) the Halyard person will need to lower it down. At this point the dingy will likely be resting athwartships and the stern may be on the lifelines.
*now manhandle it into a position so you can turn it over and put it where you want it. Each time you set it down or rest it on the lifelines orange slime will transfer.
*It's likely that it will be pretty slimy on the bottom and need washing, if you develop "island time" while cruising, you may also find that you dont hoist it up every night, and there may be small sharp barnacles on the bottom the size of a BB or smaller that develop in just a few days. You can avoid both these scenarios, by taking the dingy to the beach first (rowing) roll it over and clean it there... although sand may be an issue.
* maybe you can come up with a scheme using the reaching strut to make this easier.... if you can attach it high enough up the mast and put the halyard through it.
* as you can tell from the process, it may take up most of a morning or previous afternoon prior to departure... you'll find a way that works for you!

Can be done easily with one person with this set-up.

Halyard to Rib. 3 urethane skateboard wheel rollers mounted on solid tubing crossbar bridging two stanchions at optimal point of stowage. Halyard sheet to capstan. Second rope to control fore/aft sway. Once it clears the solid bar with wheels as it swings inboard slack line enough for the rib to weight bear slightly toward the inside of the deck. Lay on swathe of canvas to protect deck. Ease it down onto the canvas but maintain tension on halyard. Once it weights the canvas pull into position. Pad and tape all sharp stuff and clean before hauling on deck which needs to be done regularly anyways......

Cheers

[Nashbrent]

Anyone have experience with an 11 ft. Boston Whaler?

[Curmudgeon]

If you want something light and easy to store on deck for passages, the Walker Bay Odyssey 310 Air Floor-- Hypalon-- with a Yamaha 9.8, is the way to go. The Mercury 310 has hypalon tubes, but the air floor is PVC. With the Walker Bay, you get a full 10-year warranty on everything because its all hypalon.

I didn't need a huge dink, and went with the Odyssey 270, which planes easily with a Tohatsu 6 hp. I wanted both a boat and a motor that I could carry without breaking my back. Even the 9.8 motors weigh about 80 pounds, and when you get to 15 hp its up close to 100 pounds.

If you want to plane even more easily and go faster, get a pair of those cavitation plates, like the Dolphins.

[Nashbrent]

Weight is not an issue. I have a 1400# Nick Jackson hydraulic davit. Similar to Weaver aka twin lifting arms. The dinghy is stowed suspended off my transom.

My big issue is performance. My dinghy is my primary method of transportation, even when I am in a marina.

Thanks for your input.

[Curmudgeon]

I have davits too. But if you plan to stow your boat on deck when making a passage then the weight of the boat and motor become an issue.

[rsneek928]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

The effects of blue water sailing on hulls are well known to me. I'm just looking for a decent method to get a dinghy onto my boat and if I can avoid making my boat look like a Ripper victim then so much the better.

Wouldn't it be possible to use the spinnaker boom? I have a short one as well as a long one, short one would be better methinks. Rig a halyard to the end of the boom, use a block and tackle from the end of the boom to the dinghy, hoist tackle first then hoist halyard and swing boom + dinghy aboard. You'd probably want to steady it with one line running aft held by a crew member.

I'm just thinking out loud here.


Onno

Not an expert but, what you are thinking should be very possible. You're basically envisioning a single swing derrick. Pick yourself up a copy of "Seamanship Techniques - Shipboard and Marine Operations" by DJ House. Chapter 5 - Lifting Gear, should cover everything you need to know, including calculating SWL's to make sure things don't come crashing down needlessly.

I would however, before proceeding, check with someone about using your mast/spinnaker boom for this purpose. While it's unlikely that the weights/stresses involved here would cause any harm, they are likely not the types of stresses planned for when they were designed.

Cheers,

Rob

[fishtrap]

I'm with ironhorse74. Had a couple tube keel inflatable dinghies that were OK till they developed leaks (and they will) but had nothing but trouble with the new 4 cycle Tohatsu OB. Finaly settled on an old 9' sailing Dyer Dhow. Easy to row, even wirth 2 or 3 people when using forward rowing station, lighter than rubber boats so less strain on davits, can still use w/ OB but OB not required. Plus fun to sail, good excercise rowing (I'm 65) and the last choice of beach thieves. If you want to play bumper boat, you can wrap it with an inflatable donut like West makes for the Walker Bay dinghy. My 2 cents.

[DeepFrz]

I've used a whisker pole with a tackle on the end supported by a halyard. The line led down the whisker pole to the mast and then down the mast to a winch. The dingy was a rather heavy Walker Bay, I'm not sure of the length. It actually took two of us to lift the dinghy in and turn it over for passages as the winch was not self tailing someone had to control the rotation of the dinghy while lifting it. Once lifted it was easy to swing it over the lifelines and drop it onto the foredeck. It was getting it turned over that was the most problematic. This was not on my boat but I have often wondered how it could be done in a way that would make it easy to single hand. A lighter dinghy and a self tailing winch would have helped immensely. Also fore and aft guys on the whisker pole would be necessary in choppy conditions.

[dennisail]

We ended up with an old Achilles with inflatable keel and wood floor. I think its about 10 foot. This thing is 20 years old. It has a few annoying leaks and the smaller tubes than todays tenders mean a wetter ride. I wanted a tohatsu/nissan 9.8 2 stroke as this is undeniably the best motor for hp/weight ratio. But I ended up with the 8hp version.

Even with the 8hp it is super fast with 2 people. I was told it is impossible to plane a dingy with 3 people with an 8hp but when its pumped up rock hard it will plane 3 average sized people. A friend of mine was blown away as he can not plane 3 people on his alloy hulled rib with a yamaha 15 2 stroke.