The 1970s called and want to know if you still have a windvane

[Mike OReilly]

Well, for me our Aries windvane is close to essential kit. It is my principle self-steerer, even for short coastal hops. I also use a tiller pilot (Raymarine SPX-5GP) which I use in low wind/motoring situations. It is under-rated for our boat, but has never let us down (yet), but I don’t ask a lot from it most of the time.

My sense is that windvane ownership is similar to how people talk about watermakers. Once you’ve experience one, you never want to be without. Certainly not outdated.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by newhaul

steering sail sheet to tiller its fast easy reliable and best part is it uses 0 electricity.
Honestly in my opinion every one should know how to rig it in an emergency.

I need to experiment with that this year. Last year when my Raymarine pilot failed, I had to sail about 30 miles without an autopilot. That's not really a big deal, but it was a PITA.

I adjusted the sails for the best balance and it would hold course for a minute or 2 before I had to make an adjustment. The wind was on the stern quarter. Tiller between my legs where I stood near the dodger

This year I want to setup a real sheet to tiller system and perfect it.

The problem with the Raymarine was that the shaft had come loose which I thought was a pretty bad design (but was an easy fix)

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I need to experiment with that this year. Last year when my Raymarine pilot failed, I had to sail about 30 miles without an autopilot. That's not really a big deal, but it was a PITA.

I adjusted the sails for the best balance and it would hold course for a minute or 2 before I had to make an adjustment. The wind was on the stern quarter. Tiller between my legs where I stood near the dodger

This year I want to setup a real sheet to tiller system and perfect it.

The problem with the Raymarine was that the shaft had come loose which I thought was a pretty bad design (but was an easy fix)

here is a great book on the subject.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Gs1JZ1polecoU_

I see no need for a wind vane once you master sheet to tiller .

The primary use for an auto pilot IMO is for motoring.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Sounds to me that you befriended the wrong Ray.

Besides having the right Ray I have found that some people don’t provide the proper support and guildness to their Ray and then blames him for getting tired.

Yeah, you might be right. It's not always easy to see mistreatment by a previous owner.
Still, I think the universe is having a good joke with us when the company that now designs man-rated space systems (Raytheon) was the founder of a marine electronics company (Raymarine) that actually designed actuators with plastic gears.
Oh, sure, nylon is quiet.
Yay for quiet.

[toddster8]

Originally Posted by Morequestions

I have about zero experience but do enjoy reading. I read an article by an author who tested Wind Vane vs AP. He was on a long ocean crossing. For a period of time say 24 hrs he would use one then the next period use the other. He found that the wind vane usually got him closer to his goal on average. He surmised that by using the wind better in the sails his boat may not go in a straight line as it did when using the electric auto pilot but it went faster.

Maybe I have yet to discover the optimum settings for each set of conditions, but the AP tends to hunt around a lot with the rudder, and do a lot of over-correcting, which can be the same as tapping on the brakes all the time. In light air, sometimes it seems more efficient to just turn it off and make small manual corrections as needed.

[Tillsbury]

The big difference with a windvane is that in order for it to be reliable you need to get the boat reasonably balanced. With an autopilot you can just press go. But if you spend the time getting the boat properly set up and balanced, the autopilot will have a much easier time and will use far less juice.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by newhaul

here is a great book on the subject.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...Gs1JZ1polecoU_

I see no need for a wind vane once you master sheet to tiller .

The primary use for an auto pilot IMO is for motoring.

Thanks for posting that.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Thanks for posting that.

no problem
Here are a couple of other links I found in my archives.
Sheet-to-Tiller Self Steering

A Pearson Ariel Page

Hope others find them helpful . I sure did

I also have Walt's wind vane plans ( grabbed before they went away after Walt passed.

[Allied39]

Depends on whether you are doing ocean miles or not. I dare say anyone who has ever done a few thousand ocean miles with a good operating windvane loves them.

I think a lot of folks who have no experience might doubt their value.

I have a Norvane, full stainless and a pleasure to watch in operation. Her name is "sweetie".

[Pegu Club]

It all about technology that works well for long periods of time, say, like a windvane

Fair winds,

[Greg Mason]

The compelling thing about a wind vane is it will keep your sails full, not necessarily on your course. An auto plot will keep you on your course, but not necessarily keep sails trim. The route to follow trade winds is rarely a straight line, so with a pilot you would need to plot a course that keeps you in wind. A wind vane is not the 8th wonder of the world, a thermos is. How does it know whether to keep things warm or cold?

[Rigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Boy I hope you are writing a book Jammer!
In this case it will depend mostly on the size of the boat you are talking about. But it is pretty hard to argue with a device that will do 90% of the sailing for you without complaint or need to be fed with electrons, isn't it?

I have a Raymarine autopilot (which I like and just finished repairing) and a Monitor wind vane, which I love. I usually single hand. If I am on a long passage, nothing beats the efficiency of the wind vane. I have no problem embracing newer technology, but only if it is better, or situational appropriate . I feel your question is comparable to asking if you are planning to keep your sails now that reliable engine propulsion is available.

[Jim Cate]

I see no need for a wind vane once you master sheet to tiller .

Newhaul, perhaps you are forgetting that some folks cruise in larger, actually much larger boats than yours, and that some have hull designs with less yaw stability than your long keel designs.

On larger boats the sheet forces are vastly larger than on smaller ones. This is obvious, but until you experience trying to couple these forces into a tiller (which may not even exist on such designs) in a useful manner, you have no idea how difficult it can be. No simple elastic band can supply proper restoring force, and the difference between sheet force and the force required to move the tiller is huge. Not so easy to get around...

And if the boat is not directionally stable, like many fin keeled vessels, the task of steering, especially in strong winds and deep angles, is far more difficult than in your boats. Sheet to tiller schemes are hard pressed to succeed in such cases, but a wind vane can handle them with ease.

I've some experience with both setups. I made S to T work on a Catalina 22 when doing short (< 1 day) trips. I managed to set up a S to T rig on my Yankee 30 when my tiller pilot failed two days out of Kauai en route to SF, and it got us back, steering with human input every few minutes for some 2000 miles. I'd have loved a wind vane just then. And on my Standfast 36 I built an aux rudder wind vane that steered that old IOR one-tonner for many thousands of miles. When a pintle sheared between the Tuamotus and Tahiti, and then the Autohelm 3000 failed soon thereafter I was not able to achieve S to T steering at all, despite all my experience and despite having a big selection of kit available to experiment with. Result was several days of watch on watch steering for Ann and I... not much fun and very tiring for us. (Dunno how the Hiscocks and their peers managed... far tougher than we were.) Incidentally, that boat would steer herself unaided from close hauled down to ~75 deg AWA, but deeper than that, she became, uhhh, "frisky".
Needless to say, we repaired both before we left Papeete!

My point in all this rambling is that while sheet to tiller steering can work well on some smaller boats, there is no guarantee that it will work on other, larger designs. Your dismissal of the need for a windvane is IMO unwarranted.

Jim

[colinalleck]

Aires wind vane RULES👍

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Newhaul, perhaps you are forgetting that some folks cruise in larger, actually much larger boats than yours, and that some have hull designs with less yaw stability than your long keel designs.

On larger boats the sheet forces are vastly larger than on smaller ones. This is obvious, but until you experience trying to couple these forces into a tiller (which may not even exist on such designs) in a useful manner, you have no idea how difficult it can be. No simple elastic band can supply proper restoring force, and the difference between sheet force and the force required to move the tiller is huge. Not so easy to get around...

And if the boat is not directionally stable, like many fin keeled vessels, the task of steering, especially in strong winds and deep angles, is far more difficult than in your boats. Sheet to tiller schemes are hard pressed to succeed in such cases, but a wind vane can handle them with ease.

I've some experience with both setups. I made S to T work on a Catalina 22 when doing short (< 1 day) trips. I managed to set up a S to T rig on my Yankee 30 when my tiller pilot failed two days out of Kauai en route to SF, and it got us back, steering with human input every few minutes for some 2000 miles. I'd have loved a wind vane just then. And on my Standfast 36 I built an aux rudder wind vane that steered that old IOR one-tonner for many thousands of miles. When a pintle sheared between the Tuamotus and Tahiti, and then the Autohelm 3000 failed soon thereafter I was not able to achieve S to T steering at all, despite all my experience and despite having a big selection of kit available to experiment with. Result was several days of watch on watch steering for Ann and I... not much fun and very tiring for us. (Dunno how the Hiscocks and their peers managed... far tougher than we were.) Incidentally, that boat would steer herself unaided from close hauled down to ~75 deg AWA, but deeper than that, she became, uhhh, "frisky".
Needless to say, we repaired both before we left Papeete!

My point in all this rambling is that while sheet to tiller steering can work well on some smaller boats, there is no guarantee that it will work on other, larger designs. Your dismissal of the need for a windvane is IMO unwarranted.

Jim

Jim if it didn't work I'm sorry . It did just fine on my Spencer s42 as well. just had a little assembly that allowed it to work with the wheel steering.

That being said yes on some modern designs it will be difficult to setup but it will work.
As I said you ( meaning every distance sailor) would be far ahead to have the knowledge to set it up . Just in case .