The great multi vs mono debate

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by ELC

Do a quick search on catamaran overloaded stability. You will find plenty of information on stability risk with overloaded cats at sea. In fact it is physics!

OVERLOAD any boat and you will have problems.

I said LOAD the boat. You added the "OVER".

Overloading a monohull can send it to the bottom if you want to be play word games to make a point.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If your expert friends want to believe the laws of physics don't apply, more power to you.

If you don't carry a lot of tools and only rarely have guests, why did you bring it up as a key point?

Add 2 tons of gear to a 38ft cat and you will slow it down to mono speeds but generally most cruising oriented cats will be just fine...so going on about the weight and passengers was really a red herring you added to confuse the issue. Take that down to a more modest level and you will be faster and more comfortable.

Wow, 2 Tons of gear,

10 people approx equals one ton

One ton of gear, What do you carry in tools to get a Ton of gear on board,

Tools, Spares, Batterys, Dinghy, davits, food, two people, fridge, Still wont go to a Ton in weight,

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Mr B

How do you put video's up on this site,

Thanks, Brian,

Google(d) it.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...pp-176512.html

The key is that you need to copy the link from the address bar, not share it.

[outbound_308]

I think it's ok to say this is what I like and why. What suits me and my situation may not suit you. I can see the advantages of what you prefer but unfortunately I have to make compromises based on what I am going to do and what I require for livability. Each has its strengths you have to choose the strengths that are right for you.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Wow, 2 Tons of gear,

10 people approx equals one ton

One ton of gear, What do you carry in tools to get a Ton of gear on board,

Tools, Spares, Batterys, Dinghy, davits, food, two people, fridge, Still wont go to a Ton in weight,

It is very easy for a long distance cruising yacht to gain 2 tons.

We weighed all the gear we've added to our boat since it was delivered. (this does not include stove, sinks, furniture, electronics, winch handles, running rigging, fuel water, etc).

It adds up to 2 tons.

We sailed around the world with this stuff on our monohull and it did not appreciably affect performance. (we raced with it all in a few countries and still did well, winning often)

Extra Weights Normally Removed for racing
1 Sail Dacon Cruising Main 50
2 Sail Storm Jib 35
3 Sail Dacron J-2 45
4 Life Raft 70
5 Dingy 100
6 Dingy Motor 90
7 Heavy Spare Engine Parts 75
8 Camera & Bin 7 10
9 Plumbing, rigging, odd tools 25
10 Other Spares 50
11 Books & Music CD's & Movies 70
12 Anchors 99
13 Chain 300
14 Hydraulic spares 75
15 Sail Cloth 40
16 Awnin, Plank, etc 15
17 Dingy Fuel 25
18 Dodger 15
19 Hose Bag 20
20 Wire Bag 30
21 Spare Transformer 10
22 Lazerette Timber 20
23 Solar Panels 56
24
1325

Extra Weights Retained on Board
1 Racing Sails (2 carbon mains, 3 carbon jibs, 5 spinnakers) 455
2 Custom water tanks 2x45, 2X25 140
3 Second fuel tank 25
4 Extra Batteries 4x62 248
5 110-240 transformer 90
6 Water Maker 60
7 Extra Lines 24
8 Clothes Hanging 45
9 Clothes Baskets 130
10 Tool Boxes 4X 30 120
11 Cooking & dishes 110
12 Boxes personal records 40
13 Cushions 45
14 Lazeratte Junk including timber, tackle, paint locker 15
15 Remaining Books & CD's & Battens 62.4
16 Pillows & Blankets & spare Linens 40
17 Remaining spare Engine parts 35
18 Rope rode & spare anchor 95
19 Food 100
20 35 mm Pro Cameras & loose Photo equip 70
21 Windvane Structure 150
22 Heavy Tools including hydraulics, lead blocks, etc 80
23 Sewing Machine 80
24 Air Cond 45
25 Water Heater & Water pumps 75
26 Wind Vane Paddle 40
27 Five Boxes (books and spare computers) 100
28 Sewing Box 25
29 Chair Bag 25
30 Inverter Charger 22
31 Dive bag & Awnings 30
2621.4

Total 3946.4

[barnakiel]

Cats are amazing.


We have a mono. A cat of the kind I like is beyond our $$ reach.



It is hard to say what you mean when you say "to take enough load". If you want a truck, stay on the road. Most mid size boats, cat or mono, take all a human needs on the water and then some more.



I would take a cat over a mono for all and any adventures in the tropics.


I would only opt for a beefy mono over a cat for ice work.


b.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Cats are amazing.


We have a mono. A cat of the kind I like is beyond our $$ reach.



It is hard to say what you mean when you say "to take enough load". If you want a truck, stay on the road. Most mid size boats, cat or mono, take all a human needs on the water and then some more.



I would take a cat over a mono for all and any adventures in the tropics.


I would only opt for a beefy mono over a cat for ice work.


b.

We are closing on a cat in the next week or so and selling our full keel cabo rico 38.

I can't say that we will completely miss the CR since the boat is so sea kindly and almost never harsh at sea. But as you say, and I agree, for the type of sailing we have found ourselves doing (tropics) we are better off in a cat overall.

I think our load capacity will be about the same since the new cat is a Manta 42 and has about the same reserve bouyancy. Since we are just moving our junk from one boat to the next it will be interersting to see what the impact is on the new boats waterline.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by wingssail

It is very easy for a long distance cruising yacht to gain 2 tons.


(...)

True.


And 4, and 8 too!


All depends only on how big the yacht is.


Ours is 26', and I too, like you, estimated the little extra that we add for long distance. It came up to some 10% of the boats displacement (in our case, about 300 Kg).


I can clearly see the difference by just looking at our antifouling strip on the night prior to departure.



It would be very nice to have a boat that does not sink that one inch!



Cheers,
b.

[smj]

Originally Posted by zboss

We are closing on a cat in the next week or so and selling our full keel cabo rico 38.



I can't say that we will completely miss the CR since the boat is so sea kindly and almost never harsh at sea. But as you say, and I agree, for the type of sailing we have found ourselves doing (tropics) we are better off in a cat overall.



I think our load capacity will be about the same since the new cat is a Manta 42 and has about the same reserve bouyancy. Since we are just moving our junk from one boat to the next it will be interersting to see what the impact is on the new boats waterline.

Congratulations! Nice cat.

[NevilleCat]

No, this is why I like cats, (they've been linked many times but wouldn't want to be in a mono trying to avoid it rounding up every time it surfs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ-svmgOxqw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njcbjnSMdH0&t=480s

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

No, this is why I like cats, (they've been linked many times but wouldn't want to be in a mono trying to avoid it rounding up every time it surfs...

What? So you can go dead downwind on autopilot with bare poles and towing a droque?

This is how we go downwind, under reefed main, no drogue, windvane steering, 35 kts of wind, Cabo de Vela, 2013

[smj]

Originally Posted by wingssail

What? So you can go dead downwind on autopilot with bare poles and towing a droque?



This is how we go downwind, under reefed main, no drogue, windvane steering, 35 kts of wind, Cabo de Vela, 2013



Attachment 216572



Attachment 216573



Attachment 216574



Attachment 216575

65+ kts of wind in the Southern Ocean vs 35 kts in the Caribbean. [emoji23][emoji23]

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by smj

65+ kts of wind in the Southern Ocean vs 35 kts in the Caribbean. [emoji23][emoji23]

I'm not going to look at it again but I didn't see any claim that it was 65kts, and the title of the second video is force 10 (48-55kts) in Ibiza, which is, as far as I know, not in the Southern Ocean.

Maybe it is 65kts, the conditions look pretty bad.

It would be a good thing to be the Southern Ocean, at least then it's unlikely that there is a lee shore very close ahead because I don't think I'd like to try to beat into that stuff on that Catamaran. However, we could, and would if needed, on our monohull.

[MicHughV]

I'd like to see that.

I've been in that stuff, and there was no way I could beat into it. Each wave would just clobber me backwards and sideways and forward progress might be counted in inches.

When I did successfully mount a breaking wave, my boat would literally fall thru' the sky on the back of the wave with a resounding thud that would sent a shock thru' the entire boat.

Half the damn time, my boat felt like a submarine, waves would break over the boat, where you would have to hold your breath momentarily.

Nope, had to put out the droque, drop all sail, and still do 6 knots downwind.

If I were in a cat, my trousers would have been brown !

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I'd like to see that.

I've been in that stuff, and there was no way I could beat into it. Each wave would just clobber me backwards and sideways and forward progress might be counted in inches.

When I did successfully mount a breaking wave, my boat would literally fall thru' the sky on the back of the wave with a resounding thud that would sent a shock thru' the entire boat.

Half the damn time, my boat felt like a submarine, waves would break over the boat, where you would have to hold your breath momentarily.

Nope, had to put out the droque, drop all sail, and still do 6 knots downwind.

If I were in a cat, my trousers would have been brown !

Whoa, this is unusual. A sailor telling the truth about their heavy weather experiences. It must have actually happened, instead of just happening in someone's mind. Multi or Mono - I have a hard time seeing any non-professional boat coming close to going upwind in either of those videos. With the Southern Ocean video, the consequences for being caught beam to would be severe for any standard boat. Thanks for the honesty and BTW, I have metaphorically shat myself.