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wingssail · 29-08-2022, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Being the owner of a converted race boat she may be a fat pig to you however.. she's no more of a fat pig than a Beneteau 55 nor an Oyster 53..

Horses for courses..

Ah, come on Boaty, you can't see the difference in shape? Fat vs sleek?

What course is that ~~pig~~ horse best for?

**boatman61** · 29-08-2022, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingssail

Ah, come on Boaty, you can't see the difference in shape? Fat vs sleek?

What course is that ~~pig~~ horse best for?

I'm just going on beam measurements.. even with corsets the Sense and Oyster share the same girth..

She's a comfortable mama...

Just an unfortunate choice of photo... this is more flattering..

wingssail · 29-08-2022, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

I'm just going on beam measurements.. even with corsets the Sense and Oyster share the same girth..

She's a comfortable mama...

Just an unfortunate choice of photo... this is more flattering..

That is not a more flattering view.

Look Boatmn61, I realize that different people have different preferences in boats, and a lot of people would love that boat. Geez, it is gorgeous inside and would be a comfortable home on the water. I can imagine padding around in my slippers with a mug of coffee in my hand while the sun shines in those big windows.

But I don't see recommending that to a new sailor. It's big, it's hard to operate, and it is not about sailing. And since you know my approach, it's all about the joys of sailing a boat, not living in a floating home. I want to see people learn to love sailing and learn to feel a boat when it comes alive in a little bit of wind. So I will push people towards great boats. They don't have to be expensive, but the certainly would not be pigs.

**boatman61** · 30-08-2022, 01:58

And I like lazy sailing.. some love beating to windward on their ear on their boats.. I do it when I have no choice but..
To my mind sailing jib n jigger is the easiest sailing I know and I'm never in a rush these days.. grew out of the 'gunwales awash' phase years ago.
If I could afford her I'd be head of the queue.. but then I also think Wharram Tiki's are gorgeous boats whereas most others prefer floating condos.
Not knocking your choice of boat, just your biased judgement on a boat designed in the 70's you've never set foot on.

mrk123 · 30-08-2022, 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

And I like lazy sailing.. some love beating to windward on their ear on their boats.. I do it when I have no choice but..
To my mind sailing jib n jigger is the easiest sailing I know and I'm never in a rush these days.. grew out of the 'gunwales awash' phase years ago.
If I could afford her I'd be head of the queue.. but then I also think Wharram Tiki's are gorgeous boats whereas most others prefer floating condos.
Not knocking your choice of boat, just your biased judgement on a boat designed in the 70's you've never set foot on.

I am learning that there is something (good) to be said about boats made in the 70s, namely that they are somewhat over engineered and built to last.
The Japanese were good at this in the 70s and early 80s, they made products so good that they nearly put themselves out of business as no one was coming back to buy the latest or the newest replacements. A real shame the whole world did not follow this practice!

My boat I am buying (hopefully) is a 1979 and I have been told it is a real trooper on rough seas!

**boatman61** · 30-08-2022, 02:26

Okay.. my curiosity is piqued..
Name that boat..

mrk123 · 30-08-2022, 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Okay.. my curiosity is piqued..
Name that boat..

I will post back once I have seen.

rickee · 02-09-2022, 11:12

Light and airy in good conditions is the enemy of safe and secure in bad conditions. Competitive interests.

wingssail · 02-09-2022, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

And I like lazy sailing.. some love beating to windward on their ear on their boats.. I do it when I have no choice but..
To my mind sailing jib n jigger is the easiest sailing I know and I'm never in a rush these days.. grew out of the 'gunwales awash' phase years ago.
If I could afford her I'd be head of the queue.. but then I also think Wharram Tiki's are gorgeous boats whereas most others prefer floating condos.
Not knocking your choice of boat, just your biased judgement on a boat designed in the 70's you've never set foot on.

Boaty, You are entitled to you opinion about whatever kind of boat or sailing you like best. But I don't like your attitude revealed by your choice of words: "phase", "grew out of", "biased", "judgement", "never set foot on"...

And by the way, "I grew out of..." is another way of saying, "I'm too old for that now".

I look at sailing as a sport, an athletic sport, not an easy chair. "easiest sailing" has no significance to me.

If I am not sailing I am working. If I am not working, I'm working out.

When I decide to retire from an active life, maybe then easy chair sailing will have some appeal. Not yet, I am only 76.

"boat designed in the 70's you've never set foot on" This boat was not designed in the 70's, it is a mirror of boats designed in the 1900's, and I've been on many like it. My boat was designed in the 70's.

Anders · 02-09-2022, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingssail

Boaty, You are entitled to you opinion about whatever kind of boat or sailing you like best. But I don't like your attitude revealed by your choice of words: "phase", "grew out of", "biased", "judgement", "never set .

You have used BS a few times recently even in threads discussing dynema. Do you think that is a good attitude?

Anders · 02-09-2022, 12:29

The boat looks lovely from the outside. Can't say I like the inside. Hull material is wood. That could mean anything from double layers of one inch teak planks or thin plywood.

**boatman61** · 02-09-2022, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingssail

Boaty, You are entitled to you opinion about whatever kind of boat or sailing you like best. But I don't like your attitude revealed by your choice of words: "phase", "grew out of", "biased", "judgement", "never set foot on"...

And by the way, "I grew out of..." is another way of saying, "I'm too old for that now".

I look at sailing as a sport, an athletic sport, not an easy chair. "easiest sailing" has no significance to me.

If I am not sailing I am working. If I am not working, I'm working out.

When I decide to retire from an active life, maybe then easy chair sailing will have some appeal. Not yet, I am only 76.

"boat designed in the 70's you've never set foot on" This boat was not designed in the 70's, it is a mirror of boats designed in the 1900's, and I've been on many like it. My boat was designed in the 70's.

Touchy aren't we..
You can interpret it any way you please however no malice was intended.. but, seek and you will find.
Guess Americans don't get self deprecating humour.. ego's can't take it..

As for being to old, I guess I am to old for the 21 & 22ftrs I sailed non stop across the Biscay from the UK to N Spain in December.. boats with 4.5 headroom down below but then I'm not as flexible as I was when I was 62.. 12yrs on after doing deliveries for 10yrs I have softened.. standing headroom, twin engines, electric winches do that to you.. not to mention full size cookers instead of the single burner gas stove.. and showers.
At 74 it does not appeal quite so much anymore..
Next boat will be 27-30ft, with standing headroom..

Oh, and being a French build I would say its pretty seaworthy, made it across the Atlantic at sometime in its life..
As for design, 1900's includes the 1970's.