There's Got to be Something Better Than PVC to Secure Wires in Mast?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GordMay

A series of three tie-wraps (installed at 120 degrees to each other), every several feet, will keep a bundle of wires “softly” centred in the mast.
Snug them up, leaving the tails sticking out, opposing each other. The tension they provide against the inside of the mast prevents the harness from slapping, but allows halyards to pass by.

Hmm... I have heard of this working for others unknown to me (friend of friends ) but I didn't have much success with the concept. Worked OK for a few months but then the RG213 coax started slapping - perhaps I didn't over tighten the ty-raps enough (concerned with distorting the coax). Seems to have worked with the other DC wiring but that was much less heavy than the coax.

I am currently considering PVC conduit as mast is pulled and lying beside the boat (on the hard).

FWIW, I do not have internal halyards and am open to any other suggestions

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by jongleur

I'll repeat from an earlier thread:

The best solution to internal mast wires is to take out any conduits and send a line affixed with cushion foam every 3 feet the length of the mast. Have the messenger line along the side of this. It's lighter and you can send any number of wires or lines up or down and they will be held quietly against the mast.

Worked like a charm on my K41.

Could not think of a thing that would cause corrosion in a mast than having a piece of foam in there that will hold moisture and dirt, result can be pockets of corrosion every 3 feet!!!!

[Lagoon4us]

All masts that built i've used PVC Conduit i set it ready to go with the mast on trestles horizontal, i run a large bead of SIKA straight down one edge of the conduit, i slide the PVC Conduit into the section then when all good i rotate the PVC, now the PVC is bedded to the mast by a continous run of SIKA. Tis there for as long as i'll ever need it to be....

I've never heard of wires slapping inside a PVC Conduit in a mast, maybe because the internal halyards slap more loud????

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

All masts that built i've used PVC Conduit i set it ready to go with the mast on trestles horizontal, i run a large bead of SIKA straight down one edge of the conduit, i slide the PVC Conduit into the section then when all good i rotate the PVC, now the PVC is bedded to the mast by a continous run of SIKA. Tis there for as long as i'll ever need it to be....

I've never heard of wires slapping inside a PVC Conduit in a mast, maybe because the internal halyards slap more loud????

Gosh, just when it seemed this was the best way - see post 10 http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ice-83726.html
you suggest SIKA

I remain as what is best practice.

[Lagoon4us]

I don't like drilling my section if i can help it, i've always beaded a run of SIKA then once in and straight simply rotate, small individual ones nestled are far better than one and whilst at it an extra for good measure.

Not advocating it is the best way simply it works for me, there is no UV to worry about and it keeps your section corrosion free.

Putting foam on ally is asking for trouble, any rivet you put in is simply another area for corrosion, as in dissimiliar metals.

If you do it properly the SIKA connection along the conduits complete length is far superior to the strength of the conduit itself.

Cheers Frank

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Wotname

... I didn't have much success with the concept. Worked OK for a few months but then the RG213 coax started slapping - perhaps I didn't over tighten the ty-raps enough (concerned with distorting the coax) ...

You're right not to over-tighten the ties on co-ax (snug will do).
You might use more closely spaced (every 2 ft.) tie wrap trios.

[jongleur]

Lagoon4us said:

'Could not think of a thing that would cause corrosion in a mast than having a piece of foam in there that will hold moisture and dirt, result can be pockets of corrosion every 3 feet!!!! '

But it didn't.

Won't putting lots of little holes with stainless wire and rivets in the mast compromise the mast's integrity more?

There is good quality open cell foam that stands up well.

One more thing, how heavy is 40 or more feet of wire hanging by its end fitting or a knot? Another potential fail spot? Foam holds the wires every few feet, taking the tension off the ends.

It worked well for me. Lighter, easier, quieter. YMMV

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by jongleur

Lagoon4us said:

'Could not think of a thing that would cause corrosion in a mast than having a piece of foam in there that will hold moisture and dirt, result can be pockets of corrosion every 3 feet!!!! '

But it didn't.

Won't putting lots of little holes with stainless wire and rivets in the mast compromise the mast's integrity more?

There is good quality open cell foam that stands up well.

One more thing, how heavy is 40 or more feet of wire hanging by its end fitting or a knot? Another potential fail spot? Foam holds the wires every few feet, taking the tension off the ends.

It worked well for me. Lighter, easier, quieter. YMMV

Any material of absorbent or cellular structure can/will hold salt,dirt,organic material plus moisture. Not worth the risk for me, i'm an Aluminium fabricator and i've seen the results.
Weight of wire is a big issue, as someone else posted it's good practice to go to each set of spreaders, usually then you can access by way of the 'T' Balls or whatever system of rigging you are using...

Cheers Frank

[albergsailor]

gordmay hit the jackpot as far as im concerned. After buying 25 feet of rubber hose yesterday that i cudnt even fish the wire thru. then today buying 30ft of pvc conduit, I decided to just do the zippie tie job. Although i just put one every 3 feet. Not 3 like u said in the same spot. I wudda but i forgot how u said to do it. O well i dont have internal haylards. hopefully it wont keep me up at night or il have to zip it from the outside. i just had so many bolts protruding into my mast that i was just picturing the pcv possibly wearing thru then the wires being forced into a bolt, unlikely i kno. I just simply couldnt see drilling anymore holes in my mast. I have enough as im sure we all do. Leave it to me to make such a fuss over something so simple. Many times the cheapest/simplist fix is also the best fix. Now modifiying the west marine pos navigation light to up it to my standards now that was a pita. West marine needs to really get thier game together on these pos nav lights that they sell. Its not cool to sell something for 33 dollars that took them 3 cents(no exaggeration) to make, when it goes on the top of a mast. It REALLY makes me MAD. Not cool west marine.

[Chasing Summer]

Loogan4us ... post 20 ... told about using SIKA to secure the pvc conduit in the mast. Today when I was at the marine supply getting Delo 100 for breaking oil for my Perkins 4-107 they had 5 tubes of SIKA that were close to the expiration date. I can return them if they are no good but these tubes are $18 each and I got them for $6 each. I looked inside my mast and it already has 1" pvc pop riveted in place. I'm removing the rivets to re-finish the mast anyway so I'm following Loogan4us's suggestion. I'm still not quite set on how to hang 48 feet of wire. Don't really like the "tie a knot" thing.

[Lagoon4us]

If you think about it and are happy that once the wires are in the conduit that's the last time you wish to remove them then pull them through apply occasional dobs of Sika.

They will bond in there forever so think about it first...... Cheers

[Dsanduril]

I put a post on the other conduit thread about using plastic u-bolts. Rather than double-post:

Forum Conduit Best Practice

For the hanging part, if you can assemble your harness before pulling it up through the mast, consider a wire mesh support grip. These are what are used to support wires running up and down elevator shafts, etc. in high-rise buildings. These are made from tin-coated bronze (see page L-5), others are generally available in SS:

Cord Grips

Because there is more motion on a sailboat than in typical wiring installation I like to add some extra protection. I'll build my harness, then place some heavy wall shrink wrap over the harness where the cord grip will be, then put on the cord grip. Attach the grip to just about any convenient bolt at the top of the mast. If particularly high put another grip at spreader level. You won't be able to add wires to the grip easily, but if you leave enough room in the conduit you should be able to fish new wires past the grip(s) if you need to. There are split lace grips that can be put on wires that are already in place, but they can be a real pain. If you are running new wiring much simpler to use the closed grips (although you may not think so if you are trying to slide one down the wires so it will be at spreader level).

[elliebell]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

But Bill, virtually every production boat built in the last 25 years HAS internal halyards, so your solution is of limited use to teh folks asking questions.

Cheers,

Jim

Gee, I almost found this post useful. Thanks for clarifying. I guess that annoying slapping I keep hearing in my mast must be my internal halyards, not my wires. Didn't even know I had internal halyards, just been using the ones on the outside

[bouncingyellow]

I like the zip tie idea mentioned by Gordy may, my only problem is my cables are already run and to re run them is a major job, so my thought are to use my topping lift attaching cable ties to it in the previously mentioned fashion, any thoughts on this approach

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

All masts that built i've used PVC Conduit i set it ready to go with the mast on trestles horizontal, i run a large bead of SIKA straight down one edge of the conduit, i slide the PVC Conduit into the section then when all good i rotate the PVC, now the PVC is bedded to the mast by a continous run of SIKA. Tis there for as long as i'll ever need it to be....

I've never heard of wires slapping inside a PVC Conduit in a mast, maybe because the internal halyards slap more loud????

I know this is a bit of an old thread, but it sure is relevant. Lagoon, your suggestion sounds like the easy, secure, permanent way to get a conduit in the mast. I understand the concept clearly.

My question is the conduit. If I use a continuous product, like poly sprinkler tubing, the curvature is a real challenge. If I use shorter lengths of PVC or similar, the couplings create "fat spots" that might hold the conduit away from the mast (or perhaps I'm overthinking this issue). What do you use for the conduit?

I'm thinking about 1" ID, maybe 1.25", and my mast is 50 feet long.

Thanks,

Harry