Thinking of buying a Flicka 20

[Indefatiguable]

Hey folks,

As the title says I'm pretty heavily considering buying a Flicka. I intend to live aboard with my wife and cruise pretty much full time. I'm reasonably sure we'll start in the great lakes area as that's "home", but I want to do the great loop and island hop the Caribbean along with travelling to far off destinations someday like Europe, Hawaii, etc (key word there is "someday").


A bit about us that may prove relevant

I lived in a hennesy hammock for years wandering around the Midwest US until I met my wife and her (then) 6 month old and 1 1/2 year old kids. Obviously we couldn't all sleep in my hammock, so we bought a 1990 vandura 2500 camper van and lived in that for many years while "land cruising" the US. As the kids got bigger, we decided to convert a de-commissioned school bus into an RV so we had more space, it's about 35' x 8.5' interior space - and WAY too big. honestly, the extra room is acceptable but it's too much to clean and soon enough the kids will be gone so I'm looking for something SIGNIFICANTLY smaller to live aboard.

In my younger days I did the beer can races on lake Michigan on a J/92 and a beneteau first 10r, but never skippered outside of a stint as "designated helmsman" once for a few hours.

As stated above, I have every intention of cruising larger rivers and the ICW, and ideally need to "start small" with day trips on local waters progressing to longer and longer passages as I remember/learn what exactly the heck I'm doing. The longest race i'd ever been on was the hook race on lake Michigan taking less than a week round trip.

Anyway, since trailerability, shallow draft, passage making capability (properly equipped of course), and the ability to live aboard permanently are paramount my search for the "right" boat has led me to the flicka, which leads me to my questions...


Many of the flickas for sale fall within a very narrow age range - namely '77 - '81, outside of the design changes in '83 - does anyone have any thoughts as to why that is? I've been to too many used car auctions to discount it as coincidence, and i'm thinking a major component is "aging out". Also, how easy is it to install rod holders to the stern? what about redundant water makers? whereas I again have every intention of slowly building up towards full time blue water cruising, I am only going to buy ONE boat so I need a "do it all" bugger. it seems from what I read that the main drawbacks to the flicka are space and speed - both of which i'm prepared to accept, again assuming im not missing something here...


anyway, sorry for the extremely long post, and thanks in advance for any and all advice or insight you can offer.

[JPA Cate]

Welcome aboard CF, Indefatiguable,

Sorry, I don't know the answer about the age range, possibly it might be the engines need to be replaced, but that's just a guess.

In the early days of our sailing, we met a few people in 20 and 21 footers, and the Flickas do have the reputation of being competent pocket cruisers. Imo, they're smaller than I would want to go, for two people, but you and your good lady know what you like, so why not?

Watermakers take up a fair bit of space, and that may be space that you need for storage, so think carefully on it. I would imagine you can find rod holders that you could mount on the pushpit.

Ann

[john61ct]

Are you guys small / short as well as young?

[Calif.Ted]

Don't believe there is room for 2 watermakers on a Flicka, you may have to scale down a little.

[Adelie]

They aren’t young.

The ‘77-81 thing may be that that was when fire-retardant resin was used that was prone to blistering. Or it may that that range of years was owner finished and less desirable now.

[Fore and Aft]

Nice boat the Flicka. Have you read "Kawabunga's South Seas Adventure" by Charles Dewell? Charles sometimes alone and sometimes with his wife Margaret did a South Pacific Cruise in Flicka.
I doubt there is any real reason why Flickas built in that period are more commonly for sale. Maybe that is when they produced most of them? Boats are not like cars and builders do not keep churning them out unless they have buyers lined up.
Rod holders should be easy to install on a Flicka, but you might have to clamp a rod holder on the rail since she is tiller steered.
Where is GordMay?
Cheers

[barnakiel]

Our own boat is 26' with very very generous volume and I would never ever go in anything less than what we have. If I wanted to keep my wife.


In fact, I believe there are few sub 30' cruisers that are good for anything, with many more options in the 32-34' bracket.


If you like Flicka style but want a long term cruiser liveaboard boat, start searching at the level of a BCC (sort of like Flicka scaled up), or a Vancouver 27 perhaps (very small, but at least tall inside).


Cheers,
b.

[Stu Jackson]

There's also the Dana 24.


Good luck, happy hunting.

[Hardhead]

I'd set up a rain water catchment system, instead of a water maker. If you can deal with close quarters - the world is your oyster.

The way I've always looked at is - I'm on the boat for the outdoor experience - and the world around the boat is huge. All I need is 1 comfortable bunk, 1 good seat, and a way to cook. Everything else is included.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

there are few sub 30' cruisers that are good for anything, with many more options in the 32-34' bracket.

Relevant thread for the former size range

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ts-193354.html

Flicka really is special, but going just a bit longer can get a **lot** more storage / tankage, headroom.

Especially if watermakers are desired (just do one good one)

[anchorbend]

I believe the later Flickas had an enclosed head which cutout a quarter berth. Otherwise the head was underneath the V berth which would be a pain on a full time basis for 2 people. You might look at the Pacific Seacraft Orion which is 27ft. and would need a wide load permit to trailer. More room and enough of them around. Yachtworld has them listed from 19K to 50K.

[clockwork orange]

You simply can not have everything the big boats have on these tiny boats. If you are willing to keep it simple and it sounds like you are they may make sense but there are many cruiser race types that would serve as well or better. I have recently done some work on a Dana and it is tiny. A Flicka even more so. Many of these cult boats are so absurdly heavily built that they have squandered most of the ability to carry a load that heavy displacement boats claim as a feature, but then it doesn't really matter I guess as they don't have anywhere to stow anything anyway.

[Paul L]

A Flicka sounds like a poor choice for your described plans. These pocket cruisers are far better suited to people that get in a limited time cruise a year and want to take advantage of the trailer for low-cost storage and to be able to explore distant areas with out having to spend months getting there by sail.

If you are living full time onboard, get a bigger, better sailing boat.

Here's an interesting blog on a Dana cruiser couple
http://karenandjimsexcellentadventure.blogspot.com/?m=1

[Indefatiguable]

Wow, I post a thread, run some errands, come back and what an awesome outpouring of advice and insight - much appreciated all around

I'm not sure why, but I had an image in my head of a water maker being a small, almost keep in the package under the berth till you need it, doo dad type of thing - are they more akin to a smaller water heater in size/shape? i'm going to have to google them a bit, I don't think i'll be needing one right away in any case, and good to know about the rod holders being fairly simple as well

I've looked at Danas, BCC's, allegra 24's (impossible to web search, no I don't have allergies), Falmouth cutters (the lyle hess ones, sam L morse built - not just generic cutters from falmoth, again internet difficulties with that boat), tom thumb 24's, uhhhhh … that's the bulk of them at least outside the flicka...

over the past 5 years or so of dreaming/planning three things continuously - annoyingly even - keep me coming back to the flicka.

1) in concept, a shorter boat requires less maintenance/overhead expenses - I despise overhead and recurring costs etc. Obviously, boat ownership in general does not agree with me on this particular point, therefor I'm endeavoring to minimize this problem in advance.

2) in my earlier post I stated I wanted the boat to be "trailerable"... I've found different people define what is trailerable differently. For me, it means boat ramp launchable and towable with my skoolie without serious modification. I really should have clarified earlier, big factor there. The thought behind that is the (again) cost of launching and retrieving, plus slip/mooring fees during the "i'm not full time cruising or living aboard yet" phase. TBH though, I have no idea at all how much crane services cost or how much wear/fatigue they put on the hull ( I cant imagine the full keel likes it too terribly much), so if someone would care to clue me in a bit on those two factors I'd be much obliged

3) upfront purchase price is unfortunately also a factor.. I can have my pick of flicka's for a bit over $25k, stepping up to most of the larger pocket cruisers at minimum doubles that number, if not quadruples it... I'm not financing anything, just saving up and paying cash. Essentially, every 2 feet of boat costs me 2 Wisconsin winters splitting firewood like mad up here in the Northwoods without the luxury of grid power. So... yeah I'd love a Colvin junk rigged schooner... or a Hudson force 50.. but man oh man have I found the cure for "2 foot-itis"



As far as the short and young queries, I stand 6' smooth footed and reasonably trim at 225lbs - always had a broad frame. My wife is only slightly shorter, although i'm certain my life depends upon her being much lighter haha (no she's also in decent shape). I'm 33 and she's … man you know she's pretending to sleep right now listening to the different sounds each keystroke makes - extrapolating with almost ruthless … crap … ruthless beauty? eek .. what exactly i'm typing. she's my age-ish


seriously I just got lectured haha


that is an excellent point Adelie about the fire retardant resin, I'm going to have to research that specifically - maybe get in contact with someone at pacific seacraft to see if they'd have a hard answer there. As far as boats being homebuilt, I'm under the impression that every flicka i'm looking at (and any one i'd actually consider) is professionally built at a reputable yard - in this case again by pacific seacraft, though you're correct many early flickas were homebuilt before being built by... nor'sea? and then PSC .. so who knows how long someone had the plans for before deciding what "year" the hull should be claimed at.

Fore and Aft, I've been meaning to order a copy off amazon, I can assume its not a dull read right? - as a relevant side note, kawabunga was eventually renamed Corazon (Flicka Database) and is currently one of the flickas on the market (https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/70847) - assuming that it is indeed the same yacht not just a copycat name/internet scam/etc … not a deciding factor for purchasing per se, but very cool regardless

Hardhead, I hadn't considered a catchment system, that'd be significantly easier to stow than an appliance - let alone power, awesome idea. Your mentality pertaining to the world and ship size reminds me of what I would tell people when we were still living in our camper van, "the living room is just past that door" I'd say to be fair, having to swim in your living room is a bit of a different factor, but we've always been keen to go out and do something - hike, bike, swim, fish, etc etc … go explore this big beautiful world for a living glad to know that mentality will transfer over to cruising as well as I expected

Anchorbend, as far as the head is concerned, you're correct about the enclosed head option (became standard in '83 I think) and the porti potty under the V. As much as I almost hate to admit it, our current - full time family of 4 - waste solution is literally six 5 gallon plastic buckets that we put in the pickup truck bed once full, one at a time, to take to the campground to pour out. the conversations I've had with my wife have led us to agree that the enclosed head absolutely eats up the interior space in a flicka, and we really don't want to have a plastic crapper as a pillow, so we had planned on buying one with the porti-potty and putting in a small enough to fit marine head inside a reasonably air tight (obviously openable) box beneath the V where the plastic wonder is meant to be, with a manual pump/ 2-way valve going to a - you guessed it - 5 gallon bucket (or equivalent suitable container, you can get all sizes of steel drums after all) "holding tank" hung on the transom. I bet the CG wouldn't like this idea now that I've re-read it. I'm pretty creative as pertaining to creating systems like these, but i'll make a separate thread when appropriate specifically on the topic later on. As far as the PSC orion 27, you just gave me some serious google material for the evening... assuming I can cope with the loss of on-road mobility (the boat ramp thing is the wife's point. I'm working on it tbh, but overhead per foot is also very much in my mind) the price point you've stated seems to at the very least warrant some reading - bud seriously good call, half a decade of internet reading hasn't pointed me to that one yet, thanks


Clockword Orange, specifically pertaining to a flicka's ability to carry stores for passagemaking (a "need" in my book later on, therefore a "need" at purchase time) I've read that it can float around 1.2 tons on one source, and "around a months worth for a couple" on another source … it'd take a month averaging a hearty 5kn to cross the Atlantic (New York <-> Plymouth) by my calculations. I chose Plymouth solely because it showed up on google maps as being on the close side of the UK, btw. This is actually one of the main concerns of mine, as I was considering options like towing a lifeboat with 1/3 of stores aboard it etc to extend my range - thereby highlighting one of the flicka's primary weaknesses as I can see it. If someone can shed some experienced light on the issue, I'd greatly appreciate it.

As I had to re-read my own post to remember what specific questions I'd asked I'm going to repost them in summary:
How much does it cost to haul out/drop in at a marina? How much wear or fatigue (including the kind that doesn't show up right away) does the cradle put on the hull? How much food stores/etc can a flicka handle either weight and/or volume & how ~ how long of a cruising non-stop range does that render?


Again, sorry for the incredibly lengthy post, for the delayed response, and truly thank you all for the continued insight and replies. Please do keep it coming

[Indefatiguable]

Addendum(s) to my most recent post:

Please do continue to suggest alternative boats folks, I'm "concept-proofing" the flicka against any acceptable design that comes across.

Also, I've read that every 10' of boat roughly doubles overhead costs. This notion is a prime-mover behind the flicka choice, perhaps THE top priority, or at least close.

Can anyone shed some light as to the specific relative increase in incurred expenses and maintenance between a flicka and a slightly larger pocket blue water cruiser? Criteria for useful comparison would primarily involve reasonably similar purchase price for the purposes of this question...


Thanks again